Making a VFR C152 IFR

I've just purchased a '79 152 that is currently VFR only. Avionics
consist of a single nav/com and xponder. That's it.

At some point in the next year or two I am going to want to get my
instrument ticket in this aircraft, so I'm already starting to think
about the best way to do that. Trouble is I know precious little about
IFR equipment at the moment. If someone has some good resources/links
that could get me up to speed I'd appreciate it.

Actually, I already started buying stuff. I bought an IFR Garmin 300XL
GPS on ebay (it was a steal). That's my start. I'm completely open to
suggestions on where to go from there.

Maybe a B/K 80 nav? Has everything else I need, right? I know I need
an audio (switch) panel and at least one more CDI.

I'll be searching for an avionics shop soon to install the GPS, but
until then any idea what that will cost me? Might it make some sense to
have them do a VFR-only install initially and then do it IFR when I have
the rest of my equipment? (I want a GPS now, of course, for VFR flight.)

TIA.

step 1: read the FAR about required equipment. There's no requirement
to have 2 NAV/COMs.

step 2: decide what type of IFR flying you will do in the 152. What
equipment makes sense and is economically viable?

step 3: talk to other 152/IFR owners about what they would do
differently or the same.

On Thu, 25 Mar 2004 03:57:44 GMT, Paul Folbrecht
wrote:

I've just purchased a '79 152 that is currently VFR only. Avionics
consist of a single nav/com and xponder. That's it.

At some point in the next year or two I am going to want to get my
instrument ticket in this aircraft, so I'm already starting to think
about the best way to do that. Trouble is I know precious little about
IFR equipment at the moment. If someone has some good resources/links
that could get me up to speed I'd appreciate it.

Actually, I already started buying stuff. I bought an IFR Garmin 300XL
GPS on ebay (it was a steal). That's my start. I'm completely open to
suggestions on where to go from there.

Maybe a B/K 80 nav? Has everything else I need, right? I know I need
an audio (switch) panel and at least one more CDI.

I'll be searching for an avionics shop soon to install the GPS, but
until then any idea what that will cost me? Might it make some sense to
have them do a VFR-only install initially and then do it IFR when I have
the rest of my equipment? (I want a GPS now, of course, for VFR flight.)

1. You will need an updated database for the GPS.
2. GPS will need a CDI and annunciator panel
3. Pitot/Static & Transponder/Encoder certification

Avionics installs are not cheap. Expect a thousand dollars for an
audio panel install. Several thousand for a GPS install.

Here's a pricelist for installed new equipment by Penn Avionics.
http://www.pennavionics.com/Garmin_price_list.jpg You can probably
find the list prices for the equipment and work backwards to get an
idea of the install cost. As well, a lot of shops don't want to
install radios from 'outside' sources, particularly used ones off of
eBay.

If you buy an audio panel - I'd get one with an integrated intercom
(if you don't already have) & one with integrated marker beacon
receiver.

Does your existing nav/com have LOC/GS? If not, it may make sense to
sell it and look for a used KX155.

Alternatively, you could sell all your stuff and put in a GNS430.
NAV/COM/LOC/GS/GPS all in one box, and it doesn't require the
annunciator panel. There are redundancy issues with this approach,
but you can cheaply add some redundancy via handheld GPS and radio.

-Nathan

Depending on what else you have in your panel (I'm talking about
instruments), you're probably only an inspection away from being "legal" for
IFR (see the other poster's note about reading the FARs). In particular,
one nav/com and xpdr can be legal.

More practically, you should figure out what you'll need for the type of
flying you plan to do, and don't forget that there are certain requirements
for the IFR checkride. Namely, you'll need to demonstrate both precision
and non-precision approaches (I'm assuming here that you'll be using your
plane for the checkride). That means, for example, if you don't already
have a glideslope receiver and appropriate CDI, then you should probably get
one.

Since you mentioned IFR GPS, you should know you'll need at least two other
instruments to be IFR legal. One is a CDI which can accept input from the
GPS, and the other is an annunciator for the approach (with a Garmin 430 you
could have avoided the latter).

Here's my setup, which I also arranged for IFR training in my PA28-140:

KMA20 audio
GNC-300XL GPS/comm (same as yours)
KX-175B with glideslope receiver
Narco AT50A xpdr
Garmin GI-106A cdi with glideslope shared between GPS and nav/comm
MidContinent GPS annuniciator

For serious IFR, this isn't the best panel, but it's enough for training,
currency, and the occasional weather flying I do.

best of luck,
mark


"Paul Folbrecht" wrote in message
ink.net...
I've just purchased a '79 152 that is currently VFR only. Avionics
consist of a single nav/com and xponder. That's it.

At some point in the next year or two I am going to want to get my
instrument ticket in this aircraft, so I'm already starting to think
about the best way to do that. Trouble is I know precious little about
IFR equipment at the moment. If someone has some good resources/links
that could get me up to speed I'd appreciate it.

Actually, I already started buying stuff. I bought an IFR Garmin 300XL
GPS on ebay (it was a steal). That's my start. I'm completely open to
suggestions on where to go from there.

Maybe a B/K 80 nav? Has everything else I need, right? I know I need
an audio (switch) panel and at least one more CDI.

I'll be searching for an avionics shop soon to install the GPS, but
until then any idea what that will cost me? Might it make some sense to
have them do a VFR-only install initially and then do it IFR when I have
the rest of my equipment? (I want a GPS now, of course, for VFR flight.)

TIA.

Nathan Young wrote:
[snip]

Alternatively, you could sell all your stuff and put in a GNS430.
NAV/COM/LOC/GS/GPS all in one box, and it doesn't require the
annunciator panel. There are redundancy issues with this approach,
but you can cheaply add some redundancy via handheld GPS and radio.

Yup. And at this point you've now spent almost/as much as the
152 is worth.

Blanche wrote:
Nathan Young wrote:
[snip]


Alternatively, you could sell all your stuff and put in a GNS430.
NAV/COM/LOC/GS/GPS all in one box, and it doesn't require the
annunciator panel. There are redundancy issues with this approach,
but you can cheaply add some redundancy via handheld GPS and radio.


Yup. And at this point you've now spent almost/as much as the
152 is worth.

Yup again. That's the difficulty with this whole concept. The 152 is never going
to be a serious IFR cross-country airplane. The only thing it would be usable
for IFR is training. So equip it with the minimum equipment required. One VOR
receiver. Get the static/transponder system certified. OK, add a glide slope
just for training purposes. Anything more is just putting too much money into an
airplane that isn't going anywhere. IFR GPS is going to be way more expensive
than you can justify.

Dave
Remove SHIRT to reply directly.

The basic requirement for IFR is not a whole lot more than for VFR.
You don't need two nav's (or any nav at all), although that would be
nice. The FAR outlines what you need to fly IFR. Besides the regular
six pack instruments (except the VSI), your altimeter must be accurate
to within 75 ft, and your transponder's altitude encoder must have
been inspected to IFR standards.


Paul Folbrecht wrote in message link.net...
I've just purchased a '79 152 that is currently VFR only. Avionics
consist of a single nav/com and xponder. That's it.

At some point in the next year or two I am going to want to get my
instrument ticket in this aircraft, so I'm already starting to think
about the best way to do that. Trouble is I know precious little about
IFR equipment at the moment. If someone has some good resources/links
that could get me up to speed I'd appreciate it.

Actually, I already started buying stuff. I bought an IFR Garmin 300XL
GPS on ebay (it was a steal). That's my start. I'm completely open to
suggestions on where to go from there.

Maybe a B/K 80 nav? Has everything else I need, right? I know I need
an audio (switch) panel and at least one more CDI.

I'll be searching for an avionics shop soon to install the GPS, but
until then any idea what that will cost me? Might it make some sense to
have them do a VFR-only install initially and then do it IFR when I have
the rest of my equipment? (I want a GPS now, of course, for VFR flight.)

TIA.

Dave Butler wrote:
: Yup. And at this point you've now spent almost/as much as the
: 152 is worth.

: Yup again. That's the difficulty with this whole concept. The 152 is never going
: to be a serious IFR cross-country airplane. The only thing it would be usable
: for IFR is training. So equip it with the minimum equipment required. One VOR
: receiver. Get the static/transponder system certified. OK, add a glide slope
: just for training purposes. Anything more is just putting too much money into an
: airplane that isn't going anywhere. IFR GPS is going to be way more expensive
: than you can justify.

That's pretty much the way to go. A 152 doesn't have the range or climb
performance to much real IFR. For training purposes, at least 50% is basic airwork
under the hood, with some tracking thrown in. For equipment, you need one precision,
and two other types. ILS, LOC, and VOR will make it a legit checkride. Put in a
glideslope and get the pitot/static check done. Some sort of GPS is really nice to
have, but getting one IFR-certified installed is where the big bucks are. Talk to
your instructor about using a VFR GPS as a DME for training (in VMC). Then you've got
four different types of approaches you can practice. The hard part is learning how to
control the plane and what's necessary to do *an* approach. The actual equipment and
type of approaches don't matter as much.

-Cory
--
************************************************** ***********************
* The prime directive of Linux: *
* - learn what you don't know, *
* - teach what you do. *
* (Just my 20 USm$) *
************************************************** ***********************

Paul Folbrecht asks;

At some point in the next year or two I am going to want to get my
instrument ticket in this aircraft.......

Actually, I already started buying stuff. I bought an IFR Garmin
300XL
GPS on ebay (it was a steal). That's my start. I'm completely open
to
suggestions on where to go from there.

As others have pointed out, you don't need a heck of a lot more to make
the plane legal for IFR training/flight. Here's what __I'd__ do if I
were you. I'd sell the 300XL (since you got it for a steal, you should
at least get your money back) and buy a used NARCO NAV-122A on Ebay.
You can get a yellow tagged one for about $1300. This is the ONLY piece
of equipment you will need to be able to fly IFR legally - it's a VOR,
LOC, GS, MKR and CDI all in one 3 1/8" hole. You can then legally do
ILS, LOC, and VOR approaches.

I did exactly this in order to make my COZY MKIV IFR capable (for
training purposes and light IFR). Even if you have to pay someone $500
to install it, it's still the cheapest way there, using the least panel
space.

--
Marc J. Zeitlin email:

I don't particularly intend the aircraft to be a serious IFR X-C
machine. I intend it be equipped for short-to-medium X-Cs in less than
perfect VFR weather. No hard IMC for me - ever, most likely.

See my soon-to-be post further down for what I'm leaning towards now...

Yup again. That's the difficulty with this whole concept. The 152 is
never going to be a serious IFR cross-country airplane. The only thing
it would be usable for IFR is training. So equip it with the minimum
equipment required. One VOR receiver. Get the static/transponder system
certified. OK, add a glide slope just for training purposes. Anything
more is just putting too much money into an airplane that isn't going
anywhere. IFR GPS is going to be way more expensive than you can justify.

Dave
Remove SHIRT to reply directly.