Run-in with Chicago Center

So I'm on my way home from Green Bay today (where Monday night my son and I
saw his first pro-football game, and my first game at Lambeau Field), and
the weather is fairly crappy.

By noon conditions had risen to VFR along our route of flight (KGRB to
KIOW -- Iowa City, IA), with ceilings in Green Bay 2400 broken, visibility
10 miles, and haze. METARS showed some reporting stations in the 1900
overcast range, but most were at 2200 or better, and radar was clear.

For a flatland, Wisconsin-to-Iowa flight, my personal minimums are 2000 feet
for this kind of flight. We were borderline, but conditions were predicted
to improve, so we launched.

As we droned along under a ragged overcast, we settled in for the
almost-two-hour, into-the-headwind flight home. Soon my son was dozing,
exhausted from staying up late and cheering his life-long hero, Brett Favre
(whom we were lucky enough to meet at the FBO, but that's another story),
amidst 70,000 crazed Packer fans. (To no avail, I might add: The
Sea-Pigeons slaughtered them. But it's only pre-season!)

At my low-ish altitudes, Green Bay couldn't hand me off to Chicago Center
for flight following, so we were soon on our own, watching the emerald-green
Wisconsin landscape unfold beneath us. Atlas was churning the air smoothly,
and we were making 133 knots groundspeed into a 10-knot headwind...

As we would approach the various controlled airspaces, I would pick up
flight following for a time, but they always had to cut me loose, since
Center couldn't "see" us down low. It was a strange feeling flying without
this service, which we always use on long trips.

As we approached Dubuque's Class Delta airspace, the ceilings dropped to
their expected low-point of the trip (the Mississippi River valley usually
creates its own little weather pattern. If there are low clouds around,
they are usually lower near the Big Muddy.), and I had to remain at 1900
feet to be legal. This is still plenty high, as long as you've got good
visibility, and that never dropped below 8 miles.

I called KDBQ from 15 miles out, and announced my intention to transition
their airspace. They told me to call back when 3 miles northeast of the
field. A few minutes later I did so, and the magic words "transition
approved" came over the radio. I passed just north of the field, easily
with gliding distance of their runways.

As we crossed the river, the ceilings slowly rose back up to 2500 overcast,
then broken, then scattered. The plane was running great, and we were soon
in more familiar territory. Near Monticello, IA I called up Cedar Rapids
(KCID) and picked up flight following from our favorite controller, a guy
who has known our voices and aircraft for over 6 years.

A couple of minutes later "our" controller called to ask what type of
aircraft we were. I thought this was odd, because I KNOW the guy knows what
we fly, but I told him our type and equipment on board. He thanked me and
went silent.

Two minutes later he called back and politely but tersely announced "N56993,
I just want to give you the 'head's up' that Chicago Center is not happy
about you transitioning the Class Delta airspace around Dubuque at 1900
feet, and will be wanting to talk to you when you land."

I immediately responded "Well you can tell Chicago Center that I was in
contact with Dubuque Tower, and was given permission to transition their
airspace." Upon hearing this my "friend" relaxed completely, clearly
relieved, and stated that "It must be some kind of a miscommunication, and
I'll pass that information along to Center..."

He then went completely silent, as I droned along, waiting for the F-16s to
escort me down. Visions of FAA paperwork, and some sort of disciplinary
action, danced in my head, as I wondered what might be transpiring in those
dimly lit, windowless rooms at Chicago Center in Aurora, IL...

Finally I couldn't stand it anymore, and called KCID to ask if all was well,
or if I was going to have to speak with anyone. My friend responded
jovially that "as far as we're concerned there is no issue, and to my
knowledge Chicago Center isn't concerned with it, either." While I was
glad to hear this, it was that "to my knowledge" part that stuck in my
craw -- so I resolved to call Dubuque Tower after I landed.

Taxiing to my hangar, my son was joking about the FAA Suburbans waiting to
meet us (there weren't any, thankfully!), and I immediately called Dubuque
after putting the plane away.

The Dubuque tower supervisor knew who I was right away, and immediately
began apologizing. It seems that after I transitioned his airspace (and had
switched to another frequency) he had tried to contact me, because he wanted
to make sure I was clear before releasing an IFR departure. When he
couldn't contact me, he called Chicago Center to see if THEY could see me.

Somehow this conversation got misconstrued by someone at Center to mean that
Dubuque was trying to find a VFR pilot who had busted their airspace. They
tracked me on radar (Surprise! I thought they said they couldn't see me
down low???), figured out who I was, and contacted Cedar Rapids approach --
who then called me.

Whew! Imagine if I had simply opted not to call Cedar Rapids Approach for
flight following? This whole thing could have easily blown way out of
proportion, with the "left hand not knowing what the right hand was
doing" -- and I might well have gotten a letter about it at some later
date -- when it would have been MUCH harder to prove (or disprove) anything.

A weird end to a great overnight trip!
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

Jay,

For the life of me I can't understand why you haven't finished your
instrument rating! With the amount of cross country trips you do, an
instrument rating would seem to be quite beneficial. Besides the fact that
you'd fly plenty to maintain proficiency, you've got an automatic safety
pilot to share time with, as well as a helpful co-pilot during those
stressful moments.

Heck, I'll even offer to stay at your hotel and do an accelerated IFR
finish-up program with you.

OK, my quasi rant is over, good write up. Controllers dealing with VFR
traffic seem more likely to get confused than when being handled IFR
(thankfully). Seems that LOAs, radar coverage, workload, controller
attitude, etc. often make asking and keeping a VFR flight following a
challenging task. To me, IFR makes all of that so much simpler.

Brad
(CP, CFII, etc.)

"Jay Honeck" wrote in message
news2zUc.315580$JR4.141514@attbi_s54...
So I'm on my way home from Green Bay today (where Monday night my son and
I
saw his first pro-football game, and my first game at Lambeau Field), and
the weather is fairly crappy.

By noon conditions had risen to VFR along our route of flight (KGRB to
KIOW -- Iowa City, IA), with ceilings in Green Bay 2400 broken, visibility
10 miles, and haze. METARS showed some reporting stations in the 1900
overcast range, but most were at 2200 or better, and radar was clear.

For a flatland, Wisconsin-to-Iowa flight, my personal minimums are 2000
feet
for this kind of flight. We were borderline, but conditions were
predicted
to improve, so we launched.

As we droned along under a ragged overcast, we settled in for the
almost-two-hour, into-the-headwind flight home. Soon my son was dozing,
exhausted from staying up late and cheering his life-long hero, Brett
Favre
(whom we were lucky enough to meet at the FBO, but that's another story),
amidst 70,000 crazed Packer fans. (To no avail, I might add: The
Sea-Pigeons slaughtered them. But it's only pre-season!)

At my low-ish altitudes, Green Bay couldn't hand me off to Chicago Center
for flight following, so we were soon on our own, watching the
emerald-green
Wisconsin landscape unfold beneath us. Atlas was churning the air
smoothly,
and we were making 133 knots groundspeed into a 10-knot headwind...

As we would approach the various controlled airspaces, I would pick up
flight following for a time, but they always had to cut me loose, since
Center couldn't "see" us down low. It was a strange feeling flying
without
this service, which we always use on long trips.

As we approached Dubuque's Class Delta airspace, the ceilings dropped to
their expected low-point of the trip (the Mississippi River valley usually
creates its own little weather pattern. If there are low clouds around,
they are usually lower near the Big Muddy.), and I had to remain at 1900
feet to be legal. This is still plenty high, as long as you've got good
visibility, and that never dropped below 8 miles.

I called KDBQ from 15 miles out, and announced my intention to transition
their airspace. They told me to call back when 3 miles northeast of the
field. A few minutes later I did so, and the magic words "transition
approved" came over the radio. I passed just north of the field, easily
with gliding distance of their runways.

As we crossed the river, the ceilings slowly rose back up to 2500
overcast,
then broken, then scattered. The plane was running great, and we were
soon
in more familiar territory. Near Monticello, IA I called up Cedar Rapids
(KCID) and picked up flight following from our favorite controller, a guy
who has known our voices and aircraft for over 6 years.

A couple of minutes later "our" controller called to ask what type of
aircraft we were. I thought this was odd, because I KNOW the guy knows
what
we fly, but I told him our type and equipment on board. He thanked me and
went silent.

Two minutes later he called back and politely but tersely announced
"N56993,
I just want to give you the 'head's up' that Chicago Center is not happy
about you transitioning the Class Delta airspace around Dubuque at 1900
feet, and will be wanting to talk to you when you land."

I immediately responded "Well you can tell Chicago Center that I was in
contact with Dubuque Tower, and was given permission to transition their
airspace." Upon hearing this my "friend" relaxed completely, clearly
relieved, and stated that "It must be some kind of a miscommunication, and
I'll pass that information along to Center..."

He then went completely silent, as I droned along, waiting for the F-16s
to
escort me down. Visions of FAA paperwork, and some sort of disciplinary
action, danced in my head, as I wondered what might be transpiring in
those
dimly lit, windowless rooms at Chicago Center in Aurora, IL...

Finally I couldn't stand it anymore, and called KCID to ask if all was
well,
or if I was going to have to speak with anyone. My friend responded
jovially that "as far as we're concerned there is no issue, and to my
knowledge Chicago Center isn't concerned with it, either." While I was
glad to hear this, it was that "to my knowledge" part that stuck in my
craw -- so I resolved to call Dubuque Tower after I landed.

Taxiing to my hangar, my son was joking about the FAA Suburbans waiting to
meet us (there weren't any, thankfully!), and I immediately called Dubuque
after putting the plane away.

The Dubuque tower supervisor knew who I was right away, and immediately
began apologizing. It seems that after I transitioned his airspace (and
had
switched to another frequency) he had tried to contact me, because he
wanted
to make sure I was clear before releasing an IFR departure. When he
couldn't contact me, he called Chicago Center to see if THEY could see me.

Somehow this conversation got misconstrued by someone at Center to mean
that
Dubuque was trying to find a VFR pilot who had busted their airspace.
They
tracked me on radar (Surprise! I thought they said they couldn't see me
down low???), figured out who I was, and contacted Cedar Rapids
approach --
who then called me.

Whew! Imagine if I had simply opted not to call Cedar Rapids Approach for
flight following? This whole thing could have easily blown way out of
proportion, with the "left hand not knowing what the right hand was
doing" -- and I might well have gotten a letter about it at some later
date -- when it would have been MUCH harder to prove (or disprove)
anything.

A weird end to a great overnight trip!
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

"Jay Honeck" wrote in message
news2zUc.315580$JR4.141514@attbi_s54...

So I'm on my way home from Green Bay today (where Monday night my son and
I
saw his first pro-football game, and my first game at Lambeau Field), and
the weather is fairly crappy.

By noon conditions had risen to VFR along our route of flight (KGRB to
KIOW -- Iowa City, IA), with ceilings in Green Bay 2400 broken, visibility
10 miles, and haze. METARS showed some reporting stations in the 1900
overcast range, but most were at 2200 or better, and radar was clear.

For a flatland, Wisconsin-to-Iowa flight, my personal minimums are 2000
feet
for this kind of flight. We were borderline, but conditions were
predicted
to improve, so we launched.

As we droned along under a ragged overcast, we settled in for the
almost-two-hour, into-the-headwind flight home. Soon my son was dozing,
exhausted from staying up late and cheering his life-long hero, Brett
Favre
(whom we were lucky enough to meet at the FBO, but that's another story),
amidst 70,000 crazed Packer fans. (To no avail, I might add: The
Sea-Pigeons slaughtered them. But it's only pre-season!)

At my low-ish altitudes, Green Bay couldn't hand me off to Chicago Center
for flight following, so we were soon on our own, watching the
emerald-green
Wisconsin landscape unfold beneath us.


The Horicon, WI, radar site was down for most of the day.



Atlas was churning the air smoothly,
and we were making 133 knots groundspeed into a 10-knot headwind...

As we would approach the various controlled airspaces, I would pick up
flight following for a time, but they always had to cut me loose, since
Center couldn't "see" us down low. It was a strange feeling flying
without
this service, which we always use on long trips.

As we approached Dubuque's Class Delta airspace, the ceilings dropped to
their expected low-point of the trip (the Mississippi River valley usually
creates its own little weather pattern. If there are low clouds around,
they are usually lower near the Big Muddy.), and I had to remain at 1900
feet to be legal. This is still plenty high, as long as you've got good
visibility, and that never dropped below 8 miles.

I called KDBQ from 15 miles out, and announced my intention to transition
their airspace. They told me to call back when 3 miles northeast of the
field. A few minutes later I did so, and the magic words "transition
approved" came over the radio. I passed just north of the field, easily
with gliding distance of their runways.

As we crossed the river, the ceilings slowly rose back up to 2500
overcast,
then broken, then scattered. The plane was running great, and we were
soon
in more familiar territory. Near Monticello, IA I called up Cedar Rapids
(KCID) and picked up flight following from our favorite controller, a guy
who has known our voices and aircraft for over 6 years.

A couple of minutes later "our" controller called to ask what type of
aircraft we were. I thought this was odd, because I KNOW the guy knows
what
we fly, but I told him our type and equipment on board. He thanked me and
went silent.

Two minutes later he called back and politely but tersely announced
"N56993,
I just want to give you the 'head's up' that Chicago Center is not happy
about you transitioning the Class Delta airspace around Dubuque at 1900
feet, and will be wanting to talk to you when you land."

I immediately responded "Well you can tell Chicago Center that I was in
contact with Dubuque Tower, and was given permission to transition their
airspace." Upon hearing this my "friend" relaxed completely, clearly
relieved, and stated that "It must be some kind of a miscommunication, and
I'll pass that information along to Center..."

He then went completely silent, as I droned along, waiting for the F-16s
to
escort me down. Visions of FAA paperwork, and some sort of disciplinary
action, danced in my head, as I wondered what might be transpiring in
those
dimly lit, windowless rooms at Chicago Center in Aurora, IL...

Finally I couldn't stand it anymore, and called KCID to ask if all was
well,
or if I was going to have to speak with anyone. My friend responded
jovially that "as far as we're concerned there is no issue, and to my
knowledge Chicago Center isn't concerned with it, either." While I was
glad to hear this, it was that "to my knowledge" part that stuck in my
craw -- so I resolved to call Dubuque Tower after I landed.

Taxiing to my hangar, my son was joking about the FAA Suburbans waiting to
meet us (there weren't any, thankfully!), and I immediately called Dubuque
after putting the plane away.

The Dubuque tower supervisor knew who I was right away, and immediately
began apologizing. It seems that after I transitioned his airspace (and
had
switched to another frequency) he had tried to contact me, because he
wanted
to make sure I was clear before releasing an IFR departure. When he
couldn't contact me, he called Chicago Center to see if THEY could see me.

Somehow this conversation got misconstrued by someone at Center to mean
that
Dubuque was trying to find a VFR pilot who had busted their airspace.
They
tracked me on radar (Surprise! I thought they said they couldn't see me
down low???), figured out who I was, and contacted Cedar Rapids
approach --
who then called me.


DBQ is about 46 miles from the Arlington, IA, radar site.



Whew! Imagine if I had simply opted not to call Cedar Rapids Approach for
flight following? This whole thing could have easily blown way out of
proportion, with the "left hand not knowing what the right hand was
doing" -- and I might well have gotten a letter about it at some later
date -- when it would have been MUCH harder to prove (or disprove)
anything.

A weird end to a great overnight trip!
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

Hmmm

Wouldn't have happened if you had been on your way back from a soccer
game.

Those tower guys know class when they see it

Tony


In article D2zUc.315580$JR4.141514@attbi_s54,
"Jay Honeck" wrote:

So I'm on my way home from Green Bay today (where Monday night my son and I
saw his first pro-football game, and my first game at Lambeau Field), and
the weather is fairly crappy.

By noon conditions had risen to VFR along our route of flight (KGRB to
KIOW -- Iowa City, IA), with ceilings in Green Bay 2400 broken, visibility
10 miles, and haze. METARS showed some reporting stations in the 1900
overcast range, but most were at 2200 or better, and radar was clear.

For a flatland, Wisconsin-to-Iowa flight, my personal minimums are 2000 feet
for this kind of flight. We were borderline, but conditions were predicted
to improve, so we launched.

As we droned along under a ragged overcast, we settled in for the
almost-two-hour, into-the-headwind flight home. Soon my son was dozing,
exhausted from staying up late and cheering his life-long hero, Brett Favre
(whom we were lucky enough to meet at the FBO, but that's another story),
amidst 70,000 crazed Packer fans. (To no avail, I might add: The
Sea-Pigeons slaughtered them. But it's only pre-season!)

At my low-ish altitudes, Green Bay couldn't hand me off to Chicago Center
for flight following, so we were soon on our own, watching the emerald-green
Wisconsin landscape unfold beneath us. Atlas was churning the air smoothly,
and we were making 133 knots groundspeed into a 10-knot headwind...

As we would approach the various controlled airspaces, I would pick up
flight following for a time, but they always had to cut me loose, since
Center couldn't "see" us down low. It was a strange feeling flying without
this service, which we always use on long trips.

As we approached Dubuque's Class Delta airspace, the ceilings dropped to
their expected low-point of the trip (the Mississippi River valley usually
creates its own little weather pattern. If there are low clouds around,
they are usually lower near the Big Muddy.), and I had to remain at 1900
feet to be legal. This is still plenty high, as long as you've got good
visibility, and that never dropped below 8 miles.

I called KDBQ from 15 miles out, and announced my intention to transition
their airspace. They told me to call back when 3 miles northeast of the
field. A few minutes later I did so, and the magic words "transition
approved" came over the radio. I passed just north of the field, easily
with gliding distance of their runways.

As we crossed the river, the ceilings slowly rose back up to 2500 overcast,
then broken, then scattered. The plane was running great, and we were soon
in more familiar territory. Near Monticello, IA I called up Cedar Rapids
(KCID) and picked up flight following from our favorite controller, a guy
who has known our voices and aircraft for over 6 years.

A couple of minutes later "our" controller called to ask what type of
aircraft we were. I thought this was odd, because I KNOW the guy knows what
we fly, but I told him our type and equipment on board. He thanked me and
went silent.

Two minutes later he called back and politely but tersely announced "N56993,
I just want to give you the 'head's up' that Chicago Center is not happy
about you transitioning the Class Delta airspace around Dubuque at 1900
feet, and will be wanting to talk to you when you land."

I immediately responded "Well you can tell Chicago Center that I was in
contact with Dubuque Tower, and was given permission to transition their
airspace." Upon hearing this my "friend" relaxed completely, clearly
relieved, and stated that "It must be some kind of a miscommunication, and
I'll pass that information along to Center..."

He then went completely silent, as I droned along, waiting for the F-16s to
escort me down. Visions of FAA paperwork, and some sort of disciplinary
action, danced in my head, as I wondered what might be transpiring in those
dimly lit, windowless rooms at Chicago Center in Aurora, IL...

Finally I couldn't stand it anymore, and called KCID to ask if all was well,
or if I was going to have to speak with anyone. My friend responded
jovially that "as far as we're concerned there is no issue, and to my
knowledge Chicago Center isn't concerned with it, either." While I was
glad to hear this, it was that "to my knowledge" part that stuck in my
craw -- so I resolved to call Dubuque Tower after I landed.

Taxiing to my hangar, my son was joking about the FAA Suburbans waiting to
meet us (there weren't any, thankfully!), and I immediately called Dubuque
after putting the plane away.

The Dubuque tower supervisor knew who I was right away, and immediately
began apologizing. It seems that after I transitioned his airspace (and had
switched to another frequency) he had tried to contact me, because he wanted
to make sure I was clear before releasing an IFR departure. When he
couldn't contact me, he called Chicago Center to see if THEY could see me.

Somehow this conversation got misconstrued by someone at Center to mean that
Dubuque was trying to find a VFR pilot who had busted their airspace. They
tracked me on radar (Surprise! I thought they said they couldn't see me
down low???), figured out who I was, and contacted Cedar Rapids approach --
who then called me.

Whew! Imagine if I had simply opted not to call Cedar Rapids Approach for
flight following? This whole thing could have easily blown way out of
proportion, with the "left hand not knowing what the right hand was
doing" -- and I might well have gotten a letter about it at some later
date -- when it would have been MUCH harder to prove (or disprove) anything.

A weird end to a great overnight trip!




--

Tony Roberts
PP-ASEL
VFR OTT
Night
Almost Instrument
Cessna 172H C-GICE

"Jay Honeck" wrote in message
news2zUc.315580$JR4.141514@attbi_s54...
It seems that after I transitioned his airspace (and had
switched to another frequency) he had tried to contact me, because he
wanted
to make sure I was clear before releasing an IFR departure.

Are you not supposed to ask for a frequency change before you leave them?

Or just let them know you're leaving the frequency?

Paul

"Paul Sengupta" wrote in message news:cfvak3

Are you not supposed to ask for a frequency change before you leave them?

Not required. Sometimes towers want to know when your clear their
airspace, sometimes they don't care.

Not required. Sometimes towers want to know when your clear their
airspace, sometimes they don't care.

Yeah, I used to tell Class D towers when I was clear all the time, till a
controller somewhat sarcastically responded "Uh, okay niner-niner-three."

From his tone of voice it was obvious that he really didn't care (and was,
in fact, somewhat annoyed that I called him), so I no longer bother.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

"Jay Honeck" wrote in message
newsFKUc.182853$eM2.74223@attbi_s51...
Not required. Sometimes towers want to know when your clear their
airspace, sometimes they don't care.

Yeah, I used to tell Class D towers when I was clear all the time, till a
controller somewhat sarcastically responded "Uh, okay niner-niner-three."

From his tone of voice it was obvious that he really didn't care (and was,
in fact, somewhat annoyed that I called him), so I no longer bother.

Well it really depends on where you're at. Around here, two of the busier
Class D airports definitely appreciate a call when you're clear. I just pipe
up very briefly with, "53K is clear to the northeast" and usually get a
"frequency change approved good day" response. Can't hurt.

--
Guy Elden Jr.

Really, they have no business "approving" a frequency change if you're not
in their airspace. Do they have radar there?

"Guy Elden Jr." wrote in message
...
"Jay Honeck" wrote in message
newsFKUc.182853$eM2.74223@attbi_s51...
Not required. Sometimes towers want to know when your clear their
airspace, sometimes they don't care.

Yeah, I used to tell Class D towers when I was clear all the time, till
a
controller somewhat sarcastically responded "Uh, okay
niner-niner-three."

From his tone of voice it was obvious that he really didn't care (and
was,
in fact, somewhat annoyed that I called him), so I no longer bother.

Well it really depends on where you're at. Around here, two of the busier
Class D airports definitely appreciate a call when you're clear. I just
pipe
up very briefly with, "53K is clear to the northeast" and usually get a
"frequency change approved good day" response. Can't hurt.

--
Guy Elden Jr.

"Paul Sengupta" wrote in message
...

Are you not supposed to ask for a frequency change before you leave them?

Or just let them know you're leaving the frequency?


You don't have to do either. You just have to maintain radio communications
while within the Class D airspace.