Another expensive annual this year

Dave Stadt wrote:
I don't see an annual inspection anywhere in the list.

Dave,
We don't expect the annual inspection by itself cost more than $500
or so with an owner-assist annual. We pretty much had all the
airworthy stuffs taken care off at last annual and throughout the year
(for example, we found a cracked muffler pipe while opening the cowling
to rotate the spark plugs last month and had our AP replaced it).


Jay,
Yep, we did not know our AP had a guy flown in from LI to do the
weighing. He charged something like $150 just for the travelling cost!
If we had known that, we would have checked around for a more
reasonable price.

" wrote:

I was surprised to learn that
it cost over $500 to weigh the plane but less than $200 for prop
balancing.

It cost me $60 to have my Cessna weighed about 11 years ago.

George Patterson
The desire for safety stands against every great and noble enterprise.

It all sounds like good stuff but it's more of a set of small upgrades
than an annual.

The wet pump thing is something I considered. I did get a Precise
Flight backup system (not pump). Consider that I got 900 hours out of
my dry pump before a precautionary replace with a rebuilt. My thinking
is that getting a wet pump and a PF backup system is like belt and
suspenders - a very good thing given the possible consequences. But
having a dry pump and a PF backup is essentially the same thing. The
only failure I've had in my vac system was the AI - nothing that vac
backup can do anything about. Perhaps any delta between a dry and wet
system would be better spent towards an electric AI.

What kind of a/c do you own?

wrote:
Our first annual last year increased our plane ownership cost by 50%
(engine overhaul, prop governor overhaul + few other big ticket
replacement parts + labor). When Rick and I tallied up all the things
we want our AP to do this year, it looked like we have to reach deep
into our pockets again.

Here is the list

1. Replace the dry vacuum pump with an Airwolf wet pump + Air/oil
separator(~$2500 not including labor - our AP estimated 1-2 days!). Our
original plan was to get a new dry pump (the existing one has been
spewing some carbon) + Precise Flight backup pump. Since we intend to
get instrument rating and may attempt IFR traveling (probably mostly
soft IFR), we think that the wet vacuum option would be a wiser choice
and may even out the initial cost in the long run.

2. Replace all side windows and the back window. The windshield seems
to be in good shape although our AP thinks that we will not like it as
much once the other windows are replaced! Of course, we will also want
to use the opportunity to add a photo window. This will most likely
cost at least $1K not including labor (luckily our AP allows
owner-assisted manual).

3. Replace the passenger seatbelt with shoulder harness/seatbelt. We
replaced the pilot/copilot belts last year. The cost will be reasonable
($250 or something) but probably will take a bit of labor (will try to
this ourselves again).

4. Install a cigarette lighter with multiple plugs. Probably will not
cost much but this is something we must ask our AP to do.

5. Replace the two wingtips and one stabilator tip: ~ $1K in part. Not
sure about labor. We can either do this now during the annual or let
the paint shop do it. The same goes with the nose bowls. Our AP patched
them up a bit last year but more extensive restoration will be required
for the new paint job. One of the paint shops gave an estimate of $1K
for the nose bowl job.

6. Miscellaneous stuffs: Attempt to reinstall the door bracket. Our AP
tried it once but a previous repair attempt left some rivets in the
wrong place so he had to pop the new bracket out.
Pitot/Static/Transponder check: just hope that we don't have to replace
anything else! Not sure of the cost. Last summer, Rick got the plane
weighed (after we replaced some avionics and added thermal/sound
insulation) and had the prop rebalanced. I was surprised to learn that
it cost over $500 to weigh the plane but less than $200 for prop
balancing. Replace the throttle control (again, just hope that it would
be a minor job with minimum cost). Our annual is scheduled for Feb 15.
I'm pretty sure we will think of few more items by then.

The list above and the paint job (current estimates ranging from
$10-$12K) will pretty much preclude us from taking any expensive
vacations this year. There go most of our dive trips this year. Just
hope that my 92 Honda Accord with over 230K miles will last few more
years. A Garmin 430 is most likely on the list for next year. I am
trying to convince Rick that with two pilots in the family, we don't
need 'no stinking autopilot' ;-). Not sure whether this argument will
hold when we face turbulent in IMC after getting our instrument
tickets. Speaking of IFR training, I had thought of doing either a West
Coast Adventures Trip with Field Morey or an East Coast
IFR Trip with Dough Stewart.

http://www.ifrwest.com/
http://www.dsflight.com/about.html

No doubt that either one will be a tremendous learning experience and
we will be much better pilots (and hopefully with instrument ratings)
but those trips ain't cheap either.
Maybe I should buy a lottery ticket ;-)

Hai Longworth
N30703

Maule Driver wrote:
It all sounds like good stuff but it's more of a set of small
upgrades
than an annual.
MD,

The most likely real annual job is the vaccum pump replacement. With
the expected life of dry pump being 500hrs and the fact that they
sometimes die without any advanced warning steered us toward the
2000hrs-life wet pump instead of getting a new dry pump + the Precise
Flight backup system.

You are right that these are more of a set of upgrades than what
needed for an annual but an annual downtime is a good opportunity to
'upgrade' and fix little things which are not exactly airworthiness
issue but can give us a peace of mind such as adding shoulder harnesses
to the backseat, going with a more reliable pump etc..

When we first looking into buying a plane two years ago, we never
thought of having to continue pumping greenbacks to it. It's almost
like an addiction, you keep having the urge to feed the habit ;-) I had
thought of delaying the paint job until next year so that we could
spend on the IFR trips. Last weekend in seeing little flakes of paint
came off while we were cleaning snow and ice of the poor Cardinal, I
swore that I could hear our pet bird crying "I need a new plumage"!
Hai Longworth

Welcome to ownership. If my experience is any indication, after pouring
money into it for a few year to get it the way you want it, the money
flow will lessen except for the inevitable periodic
failures/replacements (e.g. exhaust system).

re the pump; a wet pump without backup still puts you in a life
threatening situation if it happens while in IMC. Assuming you maintain
your partial panel skills, there is plenty of evidence that the failure
to recognize the problem fast enough can be deadly. Clearly the wet
pump reduces the chances but it does nothing to mitigate the risk if it
does happen. The Precise Flight setup does give you that though it is
not perfect. I would suggest that if you do decide to rely on one pump
without backup, you should install a vacummn failure light (perhaps that
is already a Cardinal feature?). That gives you what is arguably the
most important component of the PF system, a warning of the failure. If
you know it failed, you can immediately respond and perhaps avoid the
main problem in such a failure, that is, detecting it quickly.

Also, from a cost perspective, if you don't plan to fly in actual this
year, then don't bother with the pump work. But it sounds like if you
don't do the pump work, then you have the funds to get your IFR. Catch-22

wrote:
Maule Driver wrote:

It all sounds like good stuff but it's more of a set of small

upgrades

than an annual.

MD,

The most likely real annual job is the vaccum pump replacement. With
the expected life of dry pump being 500hrs and the fact that they
sometimes die without any advanced warning steered us toward the
2000hrs-life wet pump instead of getting a new dry pump + the Precise
Flight backup system.

You are right that these are more of a set of upgrades than what
needed for an annual but an annual downtime is a good opportunity to
'upgrade' and fix little things which are not exactly airworthiness
issue but can give us a peace of mind such as adding shoulder harnesses
to the backseat, going with a more reliable pump etc..

When we first looking into buying a plane two years ago, we never
thought of having to continue pumping greenbacks to it. It's almost
like an addiction, you keep having the urge to feed the habit ;-) I had
thought of delaying the paint job until next year so that we could
spend on the IFR trips. Last weekend in seeing little flakes of paint
came off while we were cleaning snow and ice of the poor Cardinal, I
swore that I could hear our pet bird crying "I need a new plumage"!
Hai Longworth

wrote:
: The list above and the paint job (current estimates ranging from
: $10-$12K) will pretty much preclude us from taking any expensive
: vacations this year. There go most of our dive trips this year. Just
: hope that my 92 Honda Accord with over 230K miles will last few more
: years. A Garmin 430 is most likely on the list for next year. I am

Around here (Southeastern MA) people are taking their airplanes to
Arkansas for paint jobs. I can find the company if you're interested.
They charged $5500 for an Archer. 2 years and many IFR hours later it
still looks great; no, it still looks like it was painted yesterday.
It's kept outside, of course. This year, the Swift and a Cherokee 140
are going to the same shop.

BTW, I do know what you mean about adding stuff. Now, I'm thinking:
Hmm, add a 2nd generation stormscope? No panel space left. But, if I
get an HSI that would free up a 3.5" hole. Hmm, $12k into my $60k plane?
Decisions, decisions....
--
Aaron Coolidge (N9376J)

wrote in message
oups.com...
Speaking of IFR training, I had thought of doing either a West
Coast Adventures Trip with Field Morey or an East Coast
IFR Trip with Dough Stewart.

http://www.ifrwest.com/
http://www.dsflight.com/about.html

No doubt that either one will be a tremendous learning experience and
we will be much better pilots (and hopefully with instrument ratings)
but those trips ain't cheap either.
Maybe I should buy a lottery ticket ;-)

Hai Longworth
N30703


I did the West Coast Trip last September. It was brilliant and I passed the
checkride with nothing to redo. Best $$ I spent in a long time.

Find someone else to do your annuals. Make sure they don't have kids
in college or boat or Mercedes Benz payments. Join the type club for
your aircraft. You're simply paying too friggin' much!

On 16 Jan 2005 19:12:31 -0800, "
wrote:

Our first annual last year increased our plane ownership cost by 50%
(engine overhaul, prop governor overhaul + few other big ticket
replacement parts + labor). When Rick and I tallied up all the things
we want our AP to do this year, it looked like we have to reach deep
into our pockets again.

Here is the list

1. Replace the dry vacuum pump with an Airwolf wet pump + Air/oil
separator(~$2500 not including labor - our AP estimated 1-2 days!). Our
original plan was to get a new dry pump (the existing one has been
spewing some carbon) + Precise Flight backup pump. Since we intend to
get instrument rating and may attempt IFR traveling (probably mostly
soft IFR), we think that the wet vacuum option would be a wiser choice
and may even out the initial cost in the long run.

2. Replace all side windows and the back window. The windshield seems
to be in good shape although our AP thinks that we will not like it as
much once the other windows are replaced! Of course, we will also want
to use the opportunity to add a photo window. This will most likely
cost at least $1K not including labor (luckily our AP allows
owner-assisted manual).

3. Replace the passenger seatbelt with shoulder harness/seatbelt. We
replaced the pilot/copilot belts last year. The cost will be reasonable
($250 or something) but probably will take a bit of labor (will try to
this ourselves again).

4. Install a cigarette lighter with multiple plugs. Probably will not
cost much but this is something we must ask our AP to do.

5. Replace the two wingtips and one stabilator tip: ~ $1K in part. Not
sure about labor. We can either do this now during the annual or let
the paint shop do it. The same goes with the nose bowls. Our AP patched
them up a bit last year but more extensive restoration will be required
for the new paint job. One of the paint shops gave an estimate of $1K
for the nose bowl job.

6. Miscellaneous stuffs: Attempt to reinstall the door bracket. Our AP
tried it once but a previous repair attempt left some rivets in the
wrong place so he had to pop the new bracket out.
Pitot/Static/Transponder check: just hope that we don't have to replace
anything else! Not sure of the cost. Last summer, Rick got the plane
weighed (after we replaced some avionics and added thermal/sound
insulation) and had the prop rebalanced. I was surprised to learn that
it cost over $500 to weigh the plane but less than $200 for prop
balancing. Replace the throttle control (again, just hope that it would
be a minor job with minimum cost). Our annual is scheduled for Feb 15.
I'm pretty sure we will think of few more items by then.

The list above and the paint job (current estimates ranging from
$10-$12K) will pretty much preclude us from taking any expensive
vacations this year. There go most of our dive trips this year. Just
hope that my 92 Honda Accord with over 230K miles will last few more
years. A Garmin 430 is most likely on the list for next year. I am
trying to convince Rick that with two pilots in the family, we don't
need 'no stinking autopilot' ;-). Not sure whether this argument will
hold when we face turbulent in IMC after getting our instrument
tickets. Speaking of IFR training, I had thought of doing either a West
Coast Adventures Trip with Field Morey or an East Coast
IFR Trip with Dough Stewart.

http://www.ifrwest.com/
http://www.dsflight.com/about.html

No doubt that either one will be a tremendous learning experience and
we will be much better pilots (and hopefully with instrument ratings)
but those trips ain't cheap either.
Maybe I should buy a lottery ticket ;-)

Hai Longworth
N30703

Depends on what level of repair you want to maintain the airplane at...
My annual expenses this year with two major AD's being due, plus a new
heater and a new carburetor on one engine cost approximately one third
of the market value of the airplane... But, I cannot buy a similar
aircraft that is as well maintained mechanically and electrically so I
made the decision to IRAN rather than trade up... If you think that
aircraft are expensive to keep up and/or upgrade, try a boat in the 40
to 50 foot range...

denny

Or a blonde in the 34C to 36D range...

Jim


.... If you think that
aircraft are expensive to keep up and/or upgrade, try a boat in the 40
to 50 foot range...