Compass

On Feb 18, 11:33 am, Bullwinkle wrote:
On 2/18/08 10:30 AM, in article
,

"thermalrider" wrote:
On Feb 17, 5:48 pm, wrote:
Does an experimental ASW20B require a compass to be legal. The
minimum equipment list in the amnual does not specify a compass?

What does the POH say is the required minimum equipment?
What does the Type Certificate say?

Why would someone not want a compass?

Out here in the mountain west we don't need no stink'n compass, just
look out the window ;-).

Consider the 2-33: standard category; not experimental.
Not a one was delivered with a compass and compass
is not mentioned in the equipment list. Not an X/C
machine by any stretch, though a few have been used
for Silver X/C. It's being standard category settles
the legality question.

At 00:44 19 February 2008, Tim Taylor wrote:
On Feb 18, 11:33 am, Bullwinkle wrote:
On 2/18/08 10:30 AM, in article

,

'thermalrider' wrote:
On Feb 17, 5:48 pm, wrote:
Does an experimental ASW20B require a compass to
be legal. The
minimum equipment list in the amnual does not specify
a compass?

What does the POH say is the required minimum equipment?
What does the Type Certificate say?

Why would someone not want a compass?

Out here in the mountain west we don't need no stink'n
compass, just
look out the window ;-).

Check the operating limitations. Mine (Experimental Amatuer Built)
says something like this:

"Must be equipped in accordance with 91.205"

So even though 91.205 does not apply to gliders, my glider is required
to have all of the required equipment in 91.205, within reason (oil
temperature and pressure not required!).

I suspect you are Experimental Exhibition? Maybe if your Operating
Limitations say something like:

"Must be equipped in accordance with ASW20B flight manual"

Then you are legal with no compass.

On Feb 18, 12:03*pm, Andy wrote:
Minimum equipment may be listed in the experimental certification docs
(operational limitations) but that may depend the date of the
airworthiness inspection and the region in which it was conducted.


When I got home I checked my ASW-28 (experimental exhibition/ air
racing) operating limitations issued May 2002. They state:

37. After completion of the flight test phase, unless appropriately
equipped for night and/or instrument flight in accordance with 91.205,
this aircraft is to be operated under day/vfr.

38. Aircraft instruments and equipment installed and used under 91.205
must be inspected and maintained in accordance with the applicable
requirments of Parts 43 and 91.....

I found no other refence to required instruments. I conclude that I
am not required to have a compass since it is not required by the
TCDS, the operational limitations, or the LBA approved flight
handbook.

I do have a panel mounted compass but it will go if I need the space
for an other instrument.

Andy

On Feb 18, 10:33*am, Bullwinkle wrote:
On 2/18/08 10:30 AM, in article
,

"thermalrider" wrote:
On Feb 17, 5:48*pm, wrote:
Does an experimental ASW20B require a compass to be legal. *The
minimum equipment list in the amnual does not specify a compass?

What does the POH say is the required minimum equipment?
What does the Type Certificate say?

Why would someone not want a compass?

Since it either takes space in the panel or worse, restrict forward
visibility if installed on the glare shield.
The ASW27 manual does NOT list compass as required instrument.

Ramy

On Feb 18, 1:55*pm, Andy wrote:
On Feb 18, 11:33*am, Bullwinkle wrote:

Why would someone not want a compass?

Because, except in the case of total GPS failure, or the rare case
that a glider is given an ATC heading vector, they are a waste of
panel space?

Andy

You can fly wings level in IMC using a standard compass. Not with GPS.

wrote:

You can fly wings level in IMC using a standard compass. Not with GPS.

The eternal theory. Have you actually done it in a modern slippery glass
ship? I certainly couldn't, but maybe I'm just ham fisted.

On Feb 21, 3:29*pm, Ramy wrote:
On Feb 18, 10:33*am, Bullwinkle wrote:

On 2/18/08 10:30 AM, in article
,

"thermalrider" wrote:
On Feb 17, 5:48*pm, wrote:
Does an experimental ASW20B require a compass to be legal. *The
minimum equipment list in the amnual does not specify a compass?

What does the POH say is the required minimum equipment?
What does the Type Certificate say?

Why would someone not want a compass?

Since it either takes space in the panel or worse, restrict forward
visibility if installed on the glare shield.
The ASW27 manual does NOT list compass as required instrument.

Ramy

The manual may not, but the Equipment list in TCDS dated January 30,
1997 requires "1 Magnetic direction indicator (Compass)"

"John Smith" wrote in message
. ..
wrote:

You can fly wings level in IMC using a standard compass. Not with GPS.

The eternal theory. Have you actually done it in a modern slippery glass
ship? I certainly couldn't, but maybe I'm just ham fisted.

Actually, you can maintain wings level with either, given a sufficient level
of skill. Garmin, I believe, sells a unit with an impressive "gyro panel"
based entirely on GPS data that works amazingly well.

With a wet compass, it's not extremely difficult to maintain heading and
wings level once the glider is stabilized on a magnetic south heading.
Getting it to that heading inside a turbulent cloud is a whole 'nuther
matter. If you get more than 15 - 20 degrees off a south heading, the trick
no longer works so turbulence is a real problem.

Yes, I've done both in a glider, under a "hood" with a safety pilot in the
other seat who held a CFII. This is the ONLY way to try this.

Bill D

Bill Daniels wrote:

If you get more than 15 - 20 degrees off a south heading, the trick
no longer works so turbulence is a real problem.

That's what I call theoretically perfect but unusable in real life.

The emergency procedure to escape a cloud without a gyro is to trim the
glider for slow straight flight, pull the airbrakes fully open, let go
of the stick and wait until you drop out of that cloud *somehow*. That's
why JAR requires the dive brakes to keep the dive speed under Vne for
dive angles up to 45 degrees.