Rolling a Non Aerobat 150

On Thu, 09 Jun 2005 09:44:29 GMT, "Mortimer Schnerd, RN"
wrote:

I am reminded of a prospective pilot my employer was interviewing: what would he
do if he stumbled into a thunderstorm. Expecting the usual techniques, I was
surprised to hear him say: "I don't go into thunderstorms". My boss kept
pushing him on the subject: "Well, if you somehow did, what would you do?" The
prospect kept bleating he didn't fly in thunderstorms. Well, I don't either,
willingly, but sometimes they're hiding out there. He might as well have said
he didn't ever fly in real IFR. He didn't get the job.

What is the answer your boss wants to hear?

Corky Scott

"Mortimer Schnerd, RN" wrote in message
.. .
Dave Stadt wrote:
So I'm curious. Have you ever spun an airplane?

Yep.


And you learned *nothing* worthwhile from that experience? I sure found
it an
eye opener the one time I inadvertently spun. If I hadn't known what it
was and
what to do about it I could see myself augering in.

On a practical note, I used to fly overgrossed aircraft from time to time.
I've
also carried my share of ice. To suggest that I'd never stall/spin
involves a
whole bunch of wishing.

You honestly believe spin training would save you if you spun with a load of
ice? Surely you jest.

"Dave Stadt" wrote in message
om...


Who cares if one is proficient in spin entry. For normal flight it is a
totally useless ability.


The key words being "For normal flight". Can anyone here guarantee that
they will not be exposed to "unusual circumstances". You never know. You
won't know until it happens, and you become a test pilot. As a flight
instructor, I was once rolled almost inverted in a Cessna 172 on a base to
final turn. Yes, I was not really paying attention. Yes, I was allowing the
student to get deeper (i.e.make more mistakes in a row) than I should have.
I have had spin training, and it works. A private pilot friend in a 150 was
run over by a Piper. (Saratoga nears Van Nuys, I think). He lost a good
portion of the left wing tip and aileron. From left downwind, at night, he
made a high power, right aileron, right rudder, left traffic approach to a
full stop. He planned a "normal flight". He had no intention of
demonstrating the unlikely. The Piper went into an apartment house. It is
very easy to find the edge of an envelope. Ask someone who has packed some
ice around.

If you've screwed the pooch bad enough to get into a spin you are probably
out of
altitude anyway and all the training in the world won't do you any good.


You are partly correct. I was out of altitude, maybe 300-400 feet. Until
then I didn't know the hardware store on short final had a Trane air
conditioner, for instance. You would be amazed at what Thrust & Rudder can
do.

Are you telling me that if something very strange happens to your
aircraft, you will make no effort to rectify the situation? You "PROBABLY"
can't do anything about it so why try? In 7000 hours, I've had 7 engine
failures on 6 aircraft, and landed every one of them on a paved runway. (3
singles, 3 twins) You should go listen to Al Haynes the next time he speaks.
(DC10, Sioux City). The pilots I know, will to a man/woman, fly the biggest
piece to the ground, and park it. Some of them have.


It's all extremely logical.

Try lifting a Lear 24B from the very end of a runway by "pucker" factor
alone, then we'll talk. There should be a another column in the takeoff
distance charts, labeled "Fire warning activated, Single Engine past V1,
Night, Ice/Snow, High Altitude, Heavy, over a 1000' obstacle. Hint: turn the
landing light off.

Al Gerharter CFIAMI

Teranews wrote:
"Dave Stadt" wrote in message
om...
It's all extremely logical.

Try lifting a Lear 24B from the very end of a runway by "pucker" factor
alone, then we'll talk. There should be a another column in the takeoff
distance charts, labeled "Fire warning activated, Single Engine past V1,
Night, Ice/Snow, High Altitude, Heavy, over a 1000' obstacle. Hint: turn the
landing light off.


When he made that statement about logic I decided he was determined to be stupid
about this. If he's lucky, he'll never have to find out why I say that.



--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN

VE

Dave Stadt wrote:

"Matt Whiting" wrote in message
...
I also don't see the logic in spin recognition vs. spin training. I

don't see how you can learn to be proficient in spin entry


Who cares if one is proficient in spin entry. For normal flight it is a
totally useless ability.

So are steep turns and other maneuvers. Most training isn't for normal
situations it is for the abnormal.


and recovery

without learning to recognize a stall and incipient spin. So this whole
concept of stall recognition vs. stall training seems pretty illogical
to me.


We are not talking about stalls. Stalls do not equal spins. But as long as
you brought it up, learning to recognize and recover from an incipent stall
(NOT SPIN) will prevent a spin. It's the old chain of events scenario.
Break the chain early on and you don't need to worry about what might
happen later. This makes spin recovery an unneeded ability. If you've
screwed the pooch bad enough to get into a spin you are probably out of
altitude anyway and all the training in the world won't do you any good.

Yes, and if you never get a flat tire you never need a spare, yet most
cars still have a spare as you simply can't be sure that you will never
hit something that puts down a tire. Same with spins. The reality is
that there are situations where you can stall and enter a spin pretty
quickly and knowing what has happened and how to address it is a very
useful ability.



It's all extremely logical.

Only in your mind and that of FAA bureacrats.


Matt