They call it the impossible turn.

WayPoint writes:

At many many airports you don't have that luxury because of rough
vegetation, industrial & residential built up areas.
Turning back is sometimes the only choice that will give you and others the
best opportunity to survive.

Obviously, if there are only jagged rocks or other unpleasant things in front
of you, then your only option is to try to turn. But many pilots get in
trouble because they don't want to do expensive damage to their airplanes, and
they end up killing themselves in an attempt to save on money or insurance.
The phenomenon is not limited to pilots.

To a certain extent one can rationalize this by thinking that broken bones may
heal but broken airplanes must be fixed or replaced. There is a logic to that,
but the probabilities and other factors are often incorrectly assessed by the
person making the decision. The probability of dying or serious, life-altering
injury is far higher than the pilot is willing to admit. Optimism encourages
him to make a bad decision.

If the area in front of the airplane is truly flat, smooth, and safe, so much
so that there's no harm in landing on it, I wonder how many pilots would still
be tempted to turn around. If you know you can land ahead off the runway with
no damage to the airplane, is there still any reason to turn around?

Clark writes:

I see that you fail to understand the nature of training. Fine. Good luck
with your attempts to understand avaiation. Perhaps if you'd get some real
training and real flight experience you'd do a better job of comprehending
the true nature of training and currency.

This particular case is easy to understand: Do not attempt to turn around and
return to the departure field in the event of total engine failure. It has
nothing to do with me. Thousands of aviation training sources say this very
thing. Do you not agree with it?

Clark writes:

The actual training which you have never had and clearly don't understand is
to know when turning back is not an option.

It's the other way around: Training is intended to make it clear that turning
back is not an option by default, not by exception. As a general rule, you
never try to turn around.

As a side note since you obviously don't understand the entire problem
presented in the ASF short, the aircraft did not suffer a total power loss.

That's probably why he lived. But many pilots will accidentally or
deliberately overlook that important detail.

On Feb 11, 6:23*am, Mxsmanic wrote:

It's the other way around: Training is intended to make it clear that turning
back is not an option by default, not by exception. As a general rule, you
never try to turn around.

You are so wrong.
You do not fly, have never had any flight training, and anything that
comes from you should not be taken seriously.

Ricky wrote
You are so wrong.
You do not fly, have never had any flight training, and anything that
comes from you should not be taken seriously.

NO Ricky....YOU are so wrong...It will probably come as quite shock to
you to find that the FAA will issue a Basic Ground Instructor
Certificate, an Advanced Ground Instructor Certificate, and an
Instrument Instructor Certificate to individuals who have never set foot
in an aircraft. Being a pilot is not a requirement to teach aviation
subjects to prospective pilots.

Robert Moore
PanAm Retired
ATP ASMEL...B-727 B-707 L-188
USN S-2 P-2 P-3
CFI CFII AGI IGI

From The FAR.....

To be eligible for a ground instructor certificate, you must
Be at least 18 years of age.
Be able to read, write, and converse fluently in English.
Exhibit practical and theoretical knowledge by passing the Fundamentals
of Instructing (FOI) and the appropriate ground instructor knowledge
tests.

Ground instructor certificates cover three levels of certification:
Basic ground instructor (BGI) may provide
Ground training in the aeronautical knowledge areas required for a
recreational or private pilot certificate
Ground training required for a recreational or private pilot flight
review
A recommendation for the recreational or private pilot knowledge test
Advanced ground instructor (AGI) may provide:
Ground training in the aeronautical knowledge areas required for any
certificate or rating
Ground training required for any flight review
A recommendation for a knowledge test required for any certificate
Instrument ground instructor (IGI) may provide:
Ground training in the aeronautical knowledge areas required for an
instrument rating to a pilot or instructor certificate
Ground training required for an instrument proficiency check
A recommendation for the instrument rating knowledge test for a pilot or
instructor certificate

Ricky wrote:
On Feb 11, 6:23 am, Mxsmanic wrote:

It's the other way around: Training is intended to make it clear that turning
back is not an option by default, not by exception. As a general rule, you
never try to turn around.

You are so wrong.
You do not fly, have never had any flight training, and anything that
comes from you should not be taken seriously.


Be a Good Boy, Ricky, and think twice before trying to put down someone
whose advice in this matter has been a life saver for pilots- and will
again be....


Brian W

Clark writes:

I'll repeat myself one more time. The training is to know when you can turn
around. There is almost always some point above which a return to the field
is possible & probable. That point is different for various aircraft and
pilot skill levels.

If there's a flat spot in front of you and you've lost all power, it's better
to land there than to try to turn around.

Clark writes:

That response would have surprised my instructor on my first stage check when
he pulled power on me just after we had flown over an airport.

Losing power while overflying an airport isn't the same as losing power just
after takeoff.

Yes, I turned it around and landed it - didn't even bend anything either!

It's all about situational awareness, particular circumstances, and training.

The particular circumstances in which you can safely turn around after a total
power loss on takeoff are very rare, irrespective of situational awareness or
training.

On Feb 14, 3:07*am, Clark wrote:

That response would have surprised my instructor on my first stage check when
he pulled power on me just after we had flown over an airport. Yes, I turned
it around and landed it - didn't even bend anything either!

It's all about situational awareness, particular circumstances, and training.


I did a couple of hours in gliders as -every- landing is a forced
landing and it does wonders to your circuit planning.
For the engine failure on takeoff my main airfield was next to a golf
course one end and a park at the other.
The other had harbour at one end and Straits at the other.
The airstrip I used to fly into was a one way ag strip with a long
line of hills in front and no flat ground either port or starboard.
The prospect of an engine failure made me preplan as to what my
actions would be under which circumstances.
Then I got on with flying the aeroplane.

In article ,
says...

Mxsmanic wrote in
:

Clark writes:

The actual training which you have never had and clearly don't
understand is to know when turning back is not an option.

It's the other way around: Training is intended to make it clear that
turning back is not an option by default, not by exception. As a general
rule, you never try to turn around.

I'll repeat myself one more time. The training is to know when you can turn
around. There is almost always some point above which a return to the field
is possible & probable. That point is different for various aircraft and
pilot skill levels.

I have been through the training. You have not. Do not attempt to lecture me
on what the training is or isn't. In simpler terms: you don't know what you
are typing about.


As a side note since you obviously don't understand the entire problem
presented in the ASF short, the aircraft did not suffer a total power
loss.

That's probably why he lived. But many pilots will accidentally or
deliberately overlook that important detail.

You are in absolutely no position to speak on what trained pilots may or may
not do.

Well spoken... typed, that man!

Unfortunately he either can not read, or transfer eye or ear input to
his brain, or his brain is unable to process it.

--
Duncan.