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Survival Rifle II
To All:
The following is taken from back-channel communications; folks who had a question but didn't want to ask it publicly. 'I tend to agree with those who believe a .22 pistol and a variety of bullet types would be a more practical survival weapon.' And I would tend to agree with you. Ideally, it would be one of those 9-shot revolvers that were popular in the 1950's. And you're right about the loads, too. .22 Long Rifle Hollow Point, and .22 cal. shot- shells are available. If you could find one of the long-barreled pistols, and rig a skeleton stock to it, you could be reasonably sure of taking deer-sized game, assuming you could put a .22 Hollow Point into the animal's kill-zone. But you're talking some serious money here. My main reason for advocating a black-powder pistol was coming upon one -- a classic 'Rusty' -- I'd acquired last winter, just before I was diagnosed with cancer. I hadn't done anything with it, other than to drop it in a coffee can filled with used motor oil. When I bought it (for $2.50) the barrel was blocked and it could not be cocked & fired. But after a five month soak in old motor oil I was able to clear the barrel and cock the thing. It needs to be taken apart and cleaned but right now it represents a two and a half pound BALLAST MASS... something I could build right into the airframe. The only advantage a black powder pistol might have over a .22 is that a .44 has the POTENTIAL to deliver more energy, assuming the cap & powder was still good after being bolted to an airplane for heaven knows how long. 'How much does such a pistol cost?' Purchased new, a well-made black-powder revolver can cost hundreds of dollars. But that's not the kind of pistol I've been talking about. The pistol I've been talking about is something from a garage sale, probably rusty and may not even work. The price of such a pistol will be from $1 to $5. 'My (local expert) says the Colt is not as good as the Remington.' He's right. You want to TRY and buy a pistol that has a top-strap design. But don't ignore whatever is available, which will probably be an Italian replica of an early Colt, which does not have the top- strap. 'If the purpose is survival I should think you would want to carry the pistol loaded. But I understand you can't do that (ie, leave a black powder weapon loaded).' That's true. Black powder is hygroscopic, meaning it will absorb water... typically moisture from the air. So don't let that happen. Wrap the pistol AND a desiccant pack in several layers of plastic, followed by several layers of heavy-weight aluminum foil. Do not use tape, just crumple the foil to make it hold. (The foil is a major part of your survival gear.) The black powder you carry for reloading must receive the same kind of vapor-barrier treatment. That is, a desiccant pack next to the powder then the whole thing sealed up in several plastic baggies, followed by two or three layers of HEAVY aluminum foil. There are some synthetic black powders, and black powder pellets, that are NOT hygroscopic... or at least, less hygroscopic than the Real Stuff. Some of these are so expensive that they are beyond the range of my Flying On The Cheap philosophy. 'A black powder pistol, such as you've proposed, appears to be an awkward load. Would you include a holster as part of your survival pistol kit? No holster. You are correct in that WHATEVER pistol you decide to use, a holster of some kind would improve its practicality. But that assumes you intend to leave the site of the downed aircraft and THAT is never a good idea. If you fly into a rock the odds are, you won't be in condition to do any traveling. If you're lucky enough to be able to select where the bird goes down, there's a high probability you'll suffer some injuries, in which case you will want to stay at or close to the crash site. Even if you make a good landing ( that is, one you can walk away from ) the odds of your being rescued are several orders of magnitude better if you stay with the downed airplane. Common practice with cap & ball revolvers that do NOT have a safety notch is to load only five rounds, reserving the sixth chamber for resting the hammer upon. Another common practice is to provide an anchoring point for a lanyard so that the pistol can never be lost or forgotten. To me, a 'shooting pouch' containing your caps, powder and bullets, is far more important than a holster. Indeed, a simple cloth pouch large enough to hold the pistol and its accouterments is a virtual necessity. Such a pouch can serve as a 'holster' of sorts. Such a pouch also lends itself to the task of building your survival weapon into the airframe. -R.S.Hoover |
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Survival Rifle II
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Survival Rifle II
On Nov 29, 12:43*pm, Anthony W wrote:
wrote: To All: The following is taken from back-channel communications; folks who had a question but didn't want to ask it publicly. 'I tend to agree with those who believe a .22 pistol and a variety of bullet types would be a more practical survival weapon.' And I would tend to agree with you. *Ideally, it would be one of those 9-shot revolvers that were popular in the 1950's. *And you're right about the loads, too. *.22 Long Rifle Hollow Point, and .22 cal. shot- shells are available. *If you could find one of the long-barreled pistols, and rig a skeleton stock to it, you could be reasonably sure of taking deer-sized game, assuming you could put a .22 Hollow Point into the animal's kill-zone. But you're talking some serious money here. *My main reason for advocating a black-powder pistol was coming upon one -- a classic 'Rusty' -- *I'd acquired last winter, just before I was diagnosed with cancer. *I hadn't done anything with it, other than to drop it in a coffee can filled with used motor oil. *When I bought it (for $2.50) the barrel was blocked and it could not be cocked & fired. *But after a five month soak in old motor oil I was able to clear the barrel and cock the thing. *It needs to be taken apart and cleaned but right now it represents a two and a half pound BALLAST MASS... something I could build right into the airframe. The only advantage a black powder pistol might have over a .22 is that a .44 has the POTENTIAL to deliver more energy, assuming the cap & powder was still good after being bolted to an airplane for heaven knows how long. 'How much does such a pistol cost?' Purchased new, a well-made black-powder revolver can cost hundreds of dollars. *But that's not the kind of pistol I've *been talking about. |
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Survival Rifle II
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Survival Rifle II
On Nov 29, 7:05*pm, Dave S wrote:
wrote: * My main reason for advocating a black-powder pistol was coming upon one -- a classic 'Rusty' -- *I'd acquired last winter, -R.S.Hoover Bob.. * * I appreciate the Homebuilder's spirit here, and being able to do things on a budget.. But survival gear, including a gun and ammo, is someplace I'd rather stick with off the shelf, ready to use, keep it simple technology. A glock pistol (which I've dispatched rabbit with), a mini 14 or camp carbine sounds much more reassuring than a refurbished antique with loose powder, caps and balls. Just one of them things.. Dave In the interest of discussion and because it's snowing outside, how about adding the element of non-firearm weapons. It's ancient history, but weapons like the sling or spear are very effective in trained hands. Explosive weapons (firearms), especially those using black powder, have the annoying habit of not exploding when you want them to and vice versa. If you miss with your first shot, the next opportunity may not come for a while. They also tend to get law enforcement people agitated. In their favor, they take less training to use effectively. A spear used with a throwing stick is a fearsome weapon. If you don't hit a large animal's vital spot, it's still hard for it to chase you while impaled with an 8 foot spear. A good throwing stick will provide a range near 100 yards. If you don't care to throw it, it still makes a good standoff weapon for self defense against an aggressive animal. Masai boys proved their manhood by taking down a lion with one. My favorite ancient weapon is the sling which dates from before recorded history (I'm not talking about a rubber tube sling shot which is also a nice weapon). A sling was the standard infantry weapon in the ancient world - cheap to make and ammunition was everywhere at hand. It's just a pair of roughly 5 foot leather thongs connected with a pouch that holds the projectile. One thong has a loop for your wrist and the other ends in a knot held against the loop making it easier to hold on to. Vastly oversimplified, you swing it up to max speed and then "fire" it by releasing the knotted end. The best technique uses the full body to accelerate the projectile with an increasing radius somewhat like a bullwhip. The final "muzzle velocity" can exceed that of most pistols. If you use an irregular rock, it will sound just like a bullet ricochet. That will scare away predators which is why they were popular with shepherds. My favorite projectile was a very silent 1" ball bearing found in large numbers around an old railroad repair yard. As a kid, I perfected the ability to punch a 1" ball bearing through a steel 55 gallon oil drum - that's hitting power. Accuracy is a bit dodgy but since it's a silent weapon, most game will allow a second or third shot. Practice solo since anyone else within several hundred yards is in mortal danger until you get the hang of it. My favorite technique was an overhand throw of just one revolution coupled with a forward lunge. The projectile was released about 12 feet AGL on a downward trajectory. For greater range, an underhand throw is used. If you hit a bunny there wouldn't be enough left to eat. |
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Survival Rifle II
bildan wrote:
On Nov 29, 7:05 pm, Dave S wrote: wrote: My main reason for advocating a black-powder pistol was coming upon one -- a classic 'Rusty' -- I'd acquired last winter, -R.S.Hoover Bob.. I appreciate the Homebuilder's spirit here, and being able to do things on a budget.. But survival gear, including a gun and ammo, is someplace I'd rather stick with off the shelf, ready to use, keep it simple technology. A glock pistol (which I've dispatched rabbit with), a mini 14 or camp carbine sounds much more reassuring than a refurbished antique with loose powder, caps and balls. Just one of them things.. Dave In the interest of discussion and because it's snowing outside, how about adding the element of non-firearm weapons. It's ancient history, but weapons like the sling or spear are very effective in trained hands. IN ADDITION to a manufactured, cartridge fed survival firearm, I could entertain the notion of a crash axe, survival knife and a sharpening stone. With those tools, I can fashion just about anything else, as well as use them as weapons. Just for conversations sake, of course. Finally put to use all that good info from the Boy Scout Handbook and the Air Force Survival Manual. Dave |
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Survival Rifle II
Dave S wrote:
Just for conversations sake, of course. Finally put to use all that good info from the Boy Scout Handbook and the Air Force Survival Manual. Dave While searching for the Air Force Survival Manual, I found this. It's interesting to say the least. http://www.equipped.org/multiservice...anual_1999.pdf I would think that a small .22 rim-fire single shot would be sufficient for most survival situations. One of those Chipmunk rifles with a larger trigger guard for adult sized fingers would be about perfect. It's very accurate out to 50 yards and a couple different types of ammo would give it a bit more flexibility. A few stingers for larger game is all that would be needed but most of the time you will be looking for rabbit and squirrel sized game. I still think that vacuum packing it wrapped in some of that oiled paper storage wrap from Brownell's would be the way to store it. Tony |
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Survival Rifle II
Dave
I punched out in the middle of a winter snow storm over Greenland. I used some of the tropical pages in the AF Survival Manual to start my fire. Worked fine. One match, one fire ) Big John ************************************************** ***** On Mon, 01 Dec 2008 16:43:41 -0600, Dave S wrote: bildan wrote: On Nov 29, 7:05 pm, Dave S wrote: wrote: My main reason for advocating a black-powder pistol was coming upon one -- a classic 'Rusty' -- I'd acquired last winter, -R.S.Hoover Bob.. I appreciate the Homebuilder's spirit here, and being able to do things on a budget.. But survival gear, including a gun and ammo, is someplace I'd rather stick with off the shelf, ready to use, keep it simple technology. A glock pistol (which I've dispatched rabbit with), a mini 14 or camp carbine sounds much more reassuring than a refurbished antique with loose powder, caps and balls. Just one of them things.. Dave In the interest of discussion and because it's snowing outside, how about adding the element of non-firearm weapons. It's ancient history, but weapons like the sling or spear are very effective in trained hands. IN ADDITION to a manufactured, cartridge fed survival firearm, I could entertain the notion of a crash axe, survival knife and a sharpening stone. With those tools, I can fashion just about anything else, as well as use them as weapons. Just for conversations sake, of course. Finally put to use all that good info from the Boy Scout Handbook and the Air Force Survival Manual. Dave |
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