Spin

In article , Teacherjh wrote:

"Preparing to jump from about 3500 feet?" Although I'm not
an avid sky diver, I didn't think anyone jumped from an airplane at much
less than 9000' AGL.


I've jumped. It's not uncommon to jump from less than 9000 feet. In
fact 3500 feet doesn't sound unreasonable to me.

My first free-fall (after doing static line jumps from 3000' AGL) was
also done at 3000'. Granted, it was only a 3 second free fall
(launching immediately into the drill to deploy the pilot chute). I
recall a safety lecture that said if we are above 1500' and the plane
runs into problems, we all jump out deploying the reserve pilot chute as
we leave the plane - diving out with our thumb's pulling on the rip
chord by our chest.

My friend Ray was stationed in Ankara, Turkey for a year. He told me the
Turkish Special Forces were the toughest warriors in the world. One day, out
on the ramp, he overheard a US Major briefing a Turkish Captain regarding a
joint mission they were about to fly. The Major said the plan was to jump
from 800 feet. The Captain said that was "Too high. We jump from no higher
than 400 feet." "Four hundred feet! That's way too low for your chutes to
open." "Oh, you want us to jump from 800 feet with parachutes. That's fine."

Perhaps John Gaquin overheard the same conversation.

Newps wrote:

If the plane is real low then you are even easier to spot. If you want
stealth you jump from 30K+ and don't open your chute until real low. They
call it a HALO jump, high altitude, low opening.

Doesn't work well for mass drops. I think they still use the static line method at
800-900' for that.

George Patterson
If you don't tell lies, you never have to remember what you said.

Scott Lowrey wrote in message ...

I was thinking more about recreational sky divers who enjoy being in the
air a long time. I jumped in Eloy, AZ, where there are a lot of serious
flyers, group jumps, VW drops (, etc so maybe that's where I got the
notion.

If you're jumping with a static line (no freefall), 3500 AGL is
normal. My first jump was a static line jump (at Eloy, AZ no less)
at 3500 ft.

John Galban=====N4BQ (PA28-180)

If the plane is real low then you are even easier to spot. If you want
stealth you jump from 30K+ and don't open your chute until real low. They
call it a HALO jump, high altitude, low opening.

Nobody did HALO in those years.

One night they took the 82nd out for a practice jump into a river, and
the lead pilot mistook a concrete highway for the water. The troopers
broke a lot of legs.

They asked psywar for a safety poster. I was the copywriter: DON'T
MAKE A DISABLING PLF. Ted did the artwork: a life-sized walking cast.
To make it look more convincing, we all signed it. Dunno if the
airborne ever published it.



all the best -- Dan Ford
email: (put Cubdriver in subject line)

The Warbird's Forum www.warbirdforum.com
The Piper Cub Forum www.pipercubforum.com
Viva Bush! blog www.vivabush.org

"Oh, you want us to jump from 800 feet with parachutes. That's fine."

This story was current in 1944, with the speaker being a Ghurka about
to be dropped behind Japanese lines in Burma. ("Oh, we get
parachutes!")

all the best -- Dan Ford
email: (put Cubdriver in subject line)

The Warbird's Forum www.warbirdforum.com
The Piper Cub Forum www.pipercubforum.com
Viva Bush! blog www.vivabush.org

So it's happened more than once! Wow.

"Cub Driver" wrote in message
...

"Oh, you want us to jump from 800 feet with parachutes. That's fine."

This story was current in 1944, with the speaker being a Ghurka about
to be dropped behind Japanese lines in Burma. ("Oh, we get
parachutes!")

all the best -- Dan Ford
email: (put Cubdriver in subject line)

The Warbird's Forum www.warbirdforum.com
The Piper Cub Forum www.pipercubforum.com
Viva Bush! blog www.vivabush.org

Normal "pull" altitude for sport jumping is between 2000' and 2500' (for
experienced skydivers). An exit at 3500' will give you approx 12-14 seconds
of freefall before pulling at 2000. However if you are going through 3500'
at terminal velocity, you only have about 7-8 sec. before 2000'. I've gotten
out somewhat lower than 2000' several times but deployed as soon as I
cleared the a/c. You shouldn't deploy your main canopy much lower than 1800'
or so to give yourself time to use emergency procedures if necessary. Also
I've never been in a jump a/c that didn't have restraints for all jumpers on
board. Base jumpers don't have a reserve system...There's usually no time to
use them anyway.
Military jumping is another animal altogether.

"Scott Lowrey" wrote in message
news:HNCmc.43949$kh4.2310079@attbi_s52...
Ditch wrote:

Here is the accident report.

http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?e...08X07972&key=1


Holy crap. "Preparing to jump from about 3500 feet?" Although I'm not
an avid sky diver, I didn't think anyone jumped from an airplane at much
less than 9000' AGL.

I did the heave-ho out of a Twin Otter at 13,000. This altitude sounds
more like BASE jumping.

Need some time to enjoy that 120 mph wind-in-the-face.

"C J Campbell" wrote in message ...
Some airplanes, including some trainers, will not recover from a fully
developed spin. Nearly all have had to demonstrate the ability to recover
from an incipient spin, the Cirrus being a notable exception.

Spin training is of most value to instructors, and even there the practical
benefit is that it gives the instructors enough confidence to keep most of
them from always grabbing the controls away from the students.

I think it is also valuable for students who are afraid of stalls and stall
recoveries.




I believe that spin training is a must for all,students, private pilot
BFR's, and even in checkrides.
I am an aerobatic pilot and a CFI giving spin training and aerobatic
intro / courses,and think that
its a shame that my students for the private pilot are not required to
demonstrate spin recovery,
many time I feel that although the student met the FAA requirement
he/she are not 100% comfortable at the
stall spin flight regime.
It also seems ( from questioning students and reviewing training
records )that some instructors are happy to pass the stage where the
'power on stalls' are to be practiced,and in many cases finding always
good excuse not to go back and practice them again until its time for
the
final review prior to the student's check ride. and even then they
sometime compromise on the approach to stall only,
and intervene with the flight controls when the aircraft is finally
fully stalled.
As far as I know in the military you will spin aircrafts ,and be very
comfy at the departures if you ever going to fill up that left spot in
the cockpit,
even if you destine to deliver mail in a high wing single.
About the decision to remove spins from the curriculum some years
ago,they could change the minimum altitude for recovery from 1500' AGL
to 3000' and cut down on the majority of accidents occurring in spin
training.
In the end I think that the FAA is out there trying to help the
AVIATION INDUSTRY by making it a little easy on the flight
schools,examiners,and present
certificate holders,and by not 'scaring' potential students a way
after tasting a fully developed spin early in the course which I
believe could be introduced toward the end of the private pilot
course, or just mandate a spin endorsement (that is required prior the
CFI initial ride) to all aviators,and can include that in the BFRs to.

On 8 May 2004 21:24:58 -0700, (Mike) wrote:

About the decision to remove spins from the curriculum some years
ago,they could change the minimum altitude for recovery from 1500' AGL
to 3000' and cut down on the majority of accidents occurring in spin
training.

When I did a spin course, these were the precautions we took:

I wore a parachute and had a seat belt in addition to the integrated
seat beat / shoulder harness.

The altimeter was set to field altitude.

Flight altitude was 4,000 feet (agl of course).

(I wasn't entirely sure that I could have exited the front seat of the
Great Lakes in a spin with two seat belts to undo, but it was nice to
know they had my well-being in mind.)


all the best -- Dan Ford
email: (put Cubdriver in subject line)

The Warbird's Forum www.warbirdforum.com
The Piper Cub Forum www.pipercubforum.com
Viva Bush! blog www.vivabush.org