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#51
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Gasohol
"ktbr" wrote in message ... Denny wrote: Hampton Airport in SE New Hampshire sells straight mogas with no additives. They buy it by the tankload at the terminal in Portland ME before the bad stuff goes in. Blue skies! -- Dan Ford The joke on us all is that gas pumped to your local distribution terminal has no alcohol in it... At the distribution terminal are huge tanks of gas, and smaller tnaks of alcohol, dye, additives, etc... The driver pulls up with his tanker... Keys in who the gas is for Shell, Marathon, ETC.and what the octane rating is and the computer selects the appropriate base stock of gasoline and mixes in the proper additives and dyes as it pumps the load to his tanker, including the alcohol... We are being hosed by the oil companies, in cahoots with the government, in more ways than just price... It is true that all oil companies fuel is essentially the same, and has been true for a long time. Explain how the government is somewhow in "cahoots" with the oil companies? Federal, state and local governments together make more on a gallon of gas than the oil companies do. http://www.redplanetcartoons.com/wor...7gasprices.jpg |
#52
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Gasohol
"B A R R Y" wrote in message et... Ken Finney wrote: I already am, but there an STC for diesels in 172s. Running on Jet-A, not Biodiesel. AKAIK, Jet-A, Diesel Fuel, and Bio-Diesel all solve the Ethanol problem and diesel engines have better thermal efficiency. Actually, in many ways, this whole series of discussions reminds me of a poster that I used to see as a kid, which said: "When you're up to your ass in aligators, remember that you came here to drain the swamp!" With that in mind, remember that the purpose of the mogas stc's, and the research leading up to them, was to alleviate the lead-fouling casued by the use of 100-115LL in some of the older designed low compression engines. It was a maintenance and reliability issue and was not related to any cost per gallon spread between avgas and mogas. At that time, IIRC, avgas contained more lead than it does today. Also, with that in mind, the modern development of diesel aircraft engines was a response to the possible, or probably, end of avgas production as avgas is a small and shrinking market niche and the possibility remains that leaded fuel could be completely phased out. Ethanol has the octane, but is problematic (deliberate understatement) to store in aircraft fuel tanks--even if all to the material compatability issues are resolved. OTOH, supplies of Jet-A (and Jet-B where applicable) seem assured well into the future. The greater efficiency of diesel engines is an excellent bonus; but was not part of the original purpose. Peter |
#53
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Gasohol
"Peter Dohm" wrote in message .. . "Ken Finney" wrote in message ... "Al G" wrote in message ... "Ken Finney" wrote in message ... "Al G" wrote in message ... "Ken Finney" wrote in message ... clare at snyder.on.ca wrote in message ... On Thu, 31 May 2007 05:11:27 GMT, tony roberts wrote: Is it true that there is no longer any requirement to label gasoline contaminated with alcohol? Worse. I read that, starting in 2007, in some places, California and some Canadian Provinces included, it is regulated that all gasoline sold must contain at least 5% alcohol/ethanol. Tony Here in Ontario I was told not all gasoline must have 5% alky, but 5% of all fuel sold must be alky - so 50% of all fuel sold being E10 satisfies the requirement. In practice, virtually all 87 octane will be e10. Premium 91 will (from some companies, at least) be E0, making the blended 89 E5. Since significantly over half the gasoline sold in Ontario is 87 octane, this would excede the requirements. - Just from what I've been told, but you can never trust the elected idiots, or worse yet the beurocrats IF I ever get a plane, all these silly fuel issues would be a real irritant. I haven't been paying much attention to the new diesel aircraft engines becoming available. Since I should be making my own biodiesel by the end of this Summer (for something less than 45 cents a gallon), are any of the new diesels in the O-200/Rotax 912 class? What do you grow to make biodiesel? Relatives that own restuarants and have to pay to dispose of waste fryer oil! You grow relatives? Well, somebody planted the seed and they tend to grow on their own. I just fertilize them now and then! What do you actually do to the waste fryer oil to make it useful as biodiesel? Filter it. (ref. Myth Busters) Al G |
#54
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Gasohol
"BT" wrote in message ... And that means that all of us using gasohol are getting worse gas mileage than we would get with straight gasoline. If the fuel is 10% ethanol that is 10% less gasoline being pumped while the price has gone up double in the last two years. Energy bill of 2005, eh????? The oil companies recently blamed the Bush Administration's emphasis on converting to bio fuels as the cause for the price increase in gasoline. Their statement: If they (bush) would support gasoline, then the oil companies would spend money on additional refineries to meet the demand and price could stay low. But with the emphasis on conversion to bio fuels and alternative energy, the oil companies have no incentives to rebuild/repair/build new refineries to meet the increasing consumption demand. Got a cite for that? That's just one of the reasons I've seen them give, amongst others are, botique fuels, world-wide demand, drillingand exploration restrictions, capacity running near 100%... So they say as they pocket record profits. http://www.redplanetcartoons.com/wor...7gasprices.jpg BTW...do you know the difference between a "PROFIT" and a "Profit Margin"? |
#55
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Gasohol
"B A R R Y" wrote in message . net... Blueskies wrote: And that means that all of us using gasohol are getting worse gas mileage than we would get with straight gasoline. I have personally verified that to be true in my vehicles. No big secret. Don't be surprised to find that there's a lot of evaporation from the tanks, either. |
#56
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Gasohol
In article .com,
Jay Honeck wrote: I tried the Alka Seltzer trick on some denatured alcohol -- no result. It did not fizz!- Hide quoted text - You talking about "rubbing alcohol"? We tested it with that, and it worked for us. Fizzing, that is... nope -- "Denatured Alcohol" purchased in a gallon can. |
#57
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Gasohol
On Fri, 1 Jun 2007 10:19:59 -0400, "Peter Dohm"
wrote: What do you actually do to the waste fryer oil to make it useful as biodiesel? You remove the glycerine -- Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com |
#58
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Gasohol
On Fri, 1 Jun 2007 07:50:08 -0700, "Al G"
wrote: Filter it. (ref. Myth Busters) Al G No. that just makes useable WVO - biodiesel is significantly more involved. -- Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com |
#59
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Gasohol
"Peter Dohm" wrote in message .. . "Ken Finney" wrote in message ... "Al G" wrote in message ... "Ken Finney" wrote in message ... "Al G" wrote in message ... "Ken Finney" wrote in message ... clare at snyder.on.ca wrote in message ... On Thu, 31 May 2007 05:11:27 GMT, tony roberts wrote: Is it true that there is no longer any requirement to label gasoline contaminated with alcohol? Worse. I read that, starting in 2007, in some places, California and some Canadian Provinces included, it is regulated that all gasoline sold must contain at least 5% alcohol/ethanol. Tony Here in Ontario I was told not all gasoline must have 5% alky, but 5% of all fuel sold must be alky - so 50% of all fuel sold being E10 satisfies the requirement. In practice, virtually all 87 octane will be e10. Premium 91 will (from some companies, at least) be E0, making the blended 89 E5. Since significantly over half the gasoline sold in Ontario is 87 octane, this would excede the requirements. - Just from what I've been told, but you can never trust the elected idiots, or worse yet the beurocrats IF I ever get a plane, all these silly fuel issues would be a real irritant. I haven't been paying much attention to the new diesel aircraft engines becoming available. Since I should be making my own biodiesel by the end of this Summer (for something less than 45 cents a gallon), are any of the new diesels in the O-200/Rotax 912 class? What do you grow to make biodiesel? Relatives that own restuarants and have to pay to dispose of waste fryer oil! You grow relatives? Well, somebody planted the seed and they tend to grow on their own. I just fertilize them now and then! What do you actually do to the waste fryer oil to make it useful as biodiesel? A common misconception is that biodiesel is just filtered vegetable oil; this is not the case. Straight Vegetable Oil (SVO) (and Waste Vegetable Oil (WVO), for that matter) don't have the proper viscosity to run in a diesel engine unless they are heated to the 140 F to 170 F range. More importantly, they solidify at too high a temperature and will clog the injector pump and injectors. Biodiesel is vegetable oil that has gone through the transesterification process. Simplified, you mix many parts vegetable oil with one part methanol and a little bit of lye, then heat and stir the mixture. After a while, you have a tank of cloudy oil with glycerine on the bottom. You then bubble air through the oil until it is no longer cloudy, and the clear oil is biodiesel. |
#60
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Gasohol
"Matt Barrow" wrote:
http://www.redplanetcartoons.com/wor...7gasprices.jpg It varies of course with location, but for a gallon of branded gas sold in California the average values appear to be[1]: $3.44 Retail price per gallon. $0.62 Taxes (18%) $1.61 Crude oil cost (47%) Profit margins vary a lot by company and over time, but a mid-term (not long term) average of ~8% seems a useful number.[2] Though Exxon managed to get nearly 11% last year.[3] So for the above $3.44 gallon of gas, and if they were still getting 11%, their profit would have been: $0.38 Oil company profit. So the $0.09 in the cartoon may be the gas station owner's EBITDA per gallon. The industries that really have high profit margins are banking, drugs, and software. People rarely complain about price gouging from Microsoft or other software companies, but their profit margins are quite large relative to other industries. And some people wonder why I'm still in the software business. ;-) [1] http://www.energy.ca.gov/gasoline/margins/index.html [2] http://www.gravmag.com/oil.html [3] http://money.cnn.com/2007/02/01/news...xxon/index.htm |
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