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#1
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flew an R22 today for the first time, hover and pedal turns were easy!
i went and flew an R22 today. the helicopter was parked on a trailer,
so the instructor insisted on doing the initial lift-off. 15 seconds later i was hover-taxi-ing to the base of the tower and the video link below is me doing a hover with pedal turns and a landing, all within the first 3 minutes ever of flying a helicopter. i seriously doubt any pilot could fly this helicopter so well, so soon, without training before hand. interestingly, the R22 really is a pretty touchy heli at the cyclic, i was surprised and expected it to be a bit "softer." thanks to american helicopters in fresno, california for accommodating my special request for an instructor (Dan) brave enough to let me do everything all at once! easy link: http://www.learntohover.com link to the video: http://www.heli-chair.com/videos_pup...er_liftoff.wmv link to american helicopters where i did my training: http://www.renthelicopters.com kas |
#2
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Hi. Just a quick note to let you know the link to the video doesn't
work. Thanks very much. Ed |
#3
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#4
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I've been flying RC helicopters for 23 years. I'm not a big 3D pilot and
don't do the aggressive aerobatics that have become so common but I'm very competent at what I can do, certainly within the realm of anything that would mimic the capabilities of a full size helicopter. I'm also a fixed wing private pilot SEL/MEL and I've got about seven hours duel instruction in helicopters and two in gyroplanes so I do have some idea of the challenges faced by an RC helicopter pilot trying to transition to the full size birds. This is just my opinion of course, but, while the performance shown in the video is impressive, I think it's unreasonable to consider this a "typical" performance. One of the problems faced by RC pilots when transitioning to the full size birds is that they're flying by feel (seat of the pants) along with visual info outside the aircraft while seated "inside" the aircraft. The RC pilot flies by visual cues "only" from outside the aircraft. It generally takes a while to make that transition. What the RC pilot gains from his/her experience with the model, is an intuitive understanding of the controls and their interactions that a non-RC pilot, whether they're a rated (non-rotorcraft) full size pilot or not, would have. Maybe there is some advantage to flying an RC model while seated in a chair with controls that mimic the full size bird's layout as apposed to just holding onto a couple of sticks, but they're still flying the model, visually. I'm also assuming that you've got that RC model a discreet distance from that chair because if the pilot does goof it up, he'll be at a significant handicap getting out of the way of the model from a seated position as apposed to if they were already on their feet. Having said that, I'd also assume that you're using some kind of "buddy box" system and instructor, at least for the first few tries, with a new student. Just wondering? I find your heli-chair intriguing and wouldn't mind trying it some time but I can't help but wonder if, in my case at least, I wouldn't be just as well off to apply that money to actual flight training. Steve R. "Heli-Chair" wrote in message oups.com... this should work http://www.heli-chair.com/videos_pub...er_liftoff.wmv kas |
#5
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my opinion is that this is indeed the typical first performance of a
pilot after training with my device (it is hard to be thought of as objective when i sell Heli-Chairs for a profit); the fixed wing pilots will follow this recollection quite closely.... when i first started training in a full sized airplane (cessna 172), i had to consciously force my feet to steer left and right while taxiing along the ground. turning the control yoke had absolutely no effect on which way the plane was moving along the pavement. after driving a car for many years, this new usage of my feet was quite awkward and took a short while to get accustomed to. it is the training of your muscle groups that is my first goal with the Heli-Chair. the chair teaches you how to use your feet, how to use BOTH arms and at the same time use your left arm for two functions, collective and throttle. this type of muscle group training could occur in any flight simulator or flight emulator...computer or otherwise. the second achievement of the Heli-Chair is what i consider to be far and above the computer flight simulators presently on the market, even the very expensive ones. i have chosen to package my helicopter cockpit controls with a remotely controlled helicopter that is every bit as responsive to the laws of physics (aerodynamics) as a full size helicopter. the feel of the cyclic, the ground effect when hovering over uneven surfaces, the fact that moving the cyclic requires a slight addition of power, these are all aspects of the model helicopter that come across fully when flying in the Heli-Chair and they are very important to understanding how to pilot a full size helicopter. there is no "feel" when flying a model using the Heli-Chair and to add a tactile response should be the topic of a funding grant from SBIR or DARPA. however, rated helicopter pilots are able to successfully fly the model using the Heli-Chair and this tells me that it is, at some fundamental level, at least similar to a full size helicopter in the way it reacts (obviously no surprise since it is after all just a smaller version of the 'real thing'). incidentally, rated airplane pilots have a surprising amount of trouble with even the torque pedals because they are much more sensitive than the 'rudder' pedals in an airplane. an important concept for me to explain here is that flying the model with a transmitter box (thumb and fingers method) in no way compares to flying it with the Heli-Chair controls. my first flights with a model helicopter were exclusively with the Heli-Chair and did not include having a safety pilot. i simply pulled the collective until it was light on the skids and started getting the feel of the cyclic, i dropped it back down if things weren't just right. it was difficult to say the least. only after mastering flight with the Heli-Chair and the necessity of training new pilots did i even need to learn how to fly with the transmitter. i can attest with first hand knowledge that almost no motor skills learned from the transmitter relay to the Heli-Chair and vice versa. using thumbs with precisely spring centered gimbals is nothing like using your arms and feet with controls that are constantly in motion. when i want to fly a model for relaxing fun, i'll use the transmitter because it is easier. when i'm up for a challenge, i will use the full size controls. the owner of a Heli-Chair can successfully use the training videos and materials i provide to teach themselves how to hover, without crashing and rebuilding the helicopter. there is of course the option of finding a local R/C helicopter pilot to have as a backup, but that is a luxury that most folks certainly won't need. you can learn everything you need within 10 feet of the ground. i have given many people a try at flying while serving as the safety pilot. i select before lift-off which controls they will be using and i do the rest. if things get out of hand, i simply take over completely and set it down, then they try again. i always start by teaching the pedals first, then pedals and throttle, then progress from that point. most curious pilots can get the feel of pedals and collective in a short while. the cyclic of course is the key to everything and takes much more practice. i also have a video system to put myself in the cockpit of the model, but that is beyond the scope of basic training with the Heli-Chair. it is really fun stuff for those looking for the ultimate experience in remotely piloted aircraft but sure not required to learn how to hover. http://www.heli-chair.com/pilot_vision.html my goal is to have the Heli-Chair available at more flight training schools as an inexpensive alternative to $200+ per hour for dual instruction. afterall, my initial motivation for this entire project was the dream of lfying a real helicopter. some folks will want to purchase a Heli-Chiar for themselves and some will opt to take advantage of hourly training or leasing options. if you are interested in this but can't afford to buy the whole thing, talk to your local flight school and get them interested if they don't already have one. it is a small investment that draw in LOTS of new customers. kas |
#6
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The OTHER Kevin in San Diego wrote: I feel the computer simulators offer something the Heli-Chair doesn't. No risk to persons or property should the helicopter crash. Don't get you are correct, the safety of a computer is of course incomparable to a whirling 4 foot rotor disk. the cost though of the helicopter really isn't that much and crashes don't have to cost very much either, if they even occur. modern helicopter kits (without the electronics) can be purchased, almost ready to fly, for about $300. some more and some less. i use a training gear called the RotoPod, which i package with the Heli-Chair. the RotoPod allows you quite a bit of flexibility with regard to finessing the helicopter on and off of the ground without damaging it. most of the time you'll only crash when you get too brave for your skill level. if you are conservative (as we like pilots to be), there is no reason to ding it up. you can dump the collective from about 10 feet or so and be just fine. maybe we should build a 30 foot 'rotopod' for the big helicopters. Have you thought of providing any control "feedback" (dampers or springs to simulate control loads) on your HC?? One thing we're i have centering springs and i have also considered a spring/dashpot version that would more closely simulate the hydraulic types where the cyclic has friction and tends more to stay where you put it. for now, simple springs and the inherent friction in the mechanism serves to provide a limited amount of "feel". to get feedback from the actual helicopter to actually actuate the controls would be very complicated. fun, but complicated. An admirable goal, but a sim inside a small room or in the corner of a hangar doesn't require "airspace" for a flying model. The HC won't provide any instrumentation for the "pilot" to refer to. One has to wonder about the FAA's view of an RC helicopter flitting about the local airport as well. We have to step very carefully around the FAA good point...no one wants a model helicopter loose on the ramp. i suppose there are creative solutions to this, such as flying the helicopter in the parking lot out front - next to more inexpensive vehicles of course. the fact that it has no instrumentation is a slight handicap. i definitely agree that sims have that advantage. in the case of IFR training for example, gauges are absolutely critical. however my point of view is this: how many students even have time to look at a gauge in their first 5 hours of training? even when i flew the R22 my first time, i devoted my entire attention on flying and relied on the instructor to help out with watching engine gauges and such. obviously for my initial 0.4 hour flight this is acceptable; over the next 1 or 2 hours of training i would suppose that flying becomes a little more automatic and i can divert a little brain power to watching the instruments. we did do one circuit in the pattern and i had some extra time then to watch instruments, but in the hover...not yet! BTW: What's this thing cost sans helicopter/electronics? I might want to blow the dust off the old JR50... $2,350 assuming you have all the radio and field gear necessary to fly your helicopter, this would cover the rest. all you would need to do is send me your transmitter for me to add a plug to interface with the Heli-Chair. i recommend you purchase two additional things, the rotopod training gear for and a newer transmitter such as the futaba 7C. i recommend the latest radio systems because they have fail-safe modes that can be programmed to shut the engine down if you experience any interference or a battery fails in the transmitter, etc. they also have computerized model setup memories so you can instantly change between flying your helicopter to flying the glider or airplane you might also have around. thanks for the input! kas |
#7
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"The OTHER Kevin in San Diego" skiddz "AT" adelphia "DOT" net wrote in
message ... BTW: What's this thing cost sans helicopter/electronics? I might want to blow the dust off the old JR50... According to his web site, www.helichair.com, (scroll down toward the bottom of the page and click on the word "products"): Heli-Chair unit and upgrades - $2,350.00 This includes modifying your transmitter A flight ready Heli-Chair Requires final assembly do to shipping limitations. Does not include the helicopter and support equipment, shipping and crating costs. They also have a "turnkey" package that includes everything you need for $3,875.00 That one includes a Futaba 7CHP radio and a Kyosho Caliber 30 helicopter. It also includes a pilots log book and FAA training materials. That brings up another question Kas. Is the flight time a person accumulates on your Heli-Chair legally loggable toward a flight certification? My understanding is that simulators have to be certified before the time on them is considered valid as flight training and there are, of course, limits to how much time you can log toward a flight rating while in a simulator. I hadn't considered the point about "muscle memory". I think I can see where that part would offer an advantage but if I'm going to spend that kind of money with the intent of earning a full size flight rating, I'd like that time to count toward that flight rating. It's expensive enough as is, as "the OTHER Kevin" can attest to. For the record, I know it may seem that I'm attacking your product. That's not really my intent, but I do have some concerns about it from the standpoint of using the Heli-Chair as a valid training devise while working toward a full size rating. Based on your response and Kevin's response, I can see where I may be totally wrong in some of the assumptions I was making about the usefulness of the Heli-Chair. I "am" intrigued by the Heli-Chair and as I said before, wouldn't mind giving it a try. In fact, there's a chance that I'll be in California this coming July (2005) and would be interested in trying an hour of hover training. The $75 listed on your web site seem like a reasonable number to satisfy my curiosity if I can work it into my travel plans and you folks are available. :-) Best of luck in your endeavors, Steve R. |
#8
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i appreciate all comments immensely. i certainly don't feel like
anyone is attacking my product or ideas. opinions and other viewpoints are critical to any intelligent discussion and help me to define the product. 1) the time logged in a Heli-Chair is NOT time you can log in your logbook, and i would like to eventually change that (a huge project!). i would think at best it could count as 5 hours or so. think about it this way: why spend hundreds of dollars per hour learning how to use your feet or how to finesse the cyclic when you can be learning autorotations instead? i think 'most' students spend far in excess of the minimum 40 hours (30 if already an airplane pilot) in obtaining their rating. in that sense, actually logging the time really isn't that important. a student spending 60 hours to obtain a private rotorcraft rating is not uncommon. those 20 extra hours you spend learning at around 200 an hour really add up (on the good side they count towards insurance requirements). if you can go to your first lesson armed with the muscle memory necessary to hover immediately, you'll be very likely to finish the rating in the absolute minimum amount of time. 2) the upfront cost of the Heli-Chair is quite high, but again there are other considerations. for one, i would like to deploy these at flight schools as a training tool, where the cost is not on the shoulders of a single student. also, the Heli-Chair is really quite tough and has a great resale value (in my opinion); when you are done with it, get a friend to buy it and recover a portion of your investment. i am doing my best to come up with a creative and safe way for me to lease these to people on a buy-back program so that when done, i can let someone else have a go at it. kas |
#9
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"Heli-Chair" wrote in message
oups.com... i went and flew an R22 today. the helicopter was parked on a trailer, so the instructor insisted on doing the initial lift-off. 15 seconds later i was hover-taxi-ing to the base of the tower and the video link below is me doing a hover with pedal turns and a landing, all within the first 3 minutes ever of flying a helicopter. i seriously doubt any pilot could fly this helicopter so well, so soon, without training before hand. Well, that looks about the same as I managed on my first flight. Maybe a tad smoother, but only just. And my only previous experience has been with R/C helis and PC simulators. After handing over the controls to me one by one, after about 3 or 4 minutes I was hovering like that with the instructor off the controls (but ready to pounce!) I think you should encourage a (conventional control) R/C only friend to go do a trial lesson. You might be surprised at how well they do. The trouble with RC helicopters, especially well set-up ones, is that there's very little cross-effect from the controls. Revolution mixing and tail gyros take so much out of the pilot's hands, and feedback flybars stabilise the cyclic to the point where on a calm day I've had a Raptor 60 hover motionless with my fingers off the cyclic for about 30 seconds. I like the idea of the heli-chair, but I would never use it for RC training. In fact no club I know of would likely allow an expert, let alone a student sit there trapped waiting to be decapitated by an out of control model. (Servo failures and RF interference are to be feared as much as inexperience.) I think it would have more value attached to a PC sim. Isn't MS FlightSim certified by the CAA for use under supervision these days? In fact I've been looking at doing something similar myself. There's no doubt in my mind that building, flying and maintaing R/C helicopters gives someone a headstart in understanding the fundamentals of helicopter flight, and the added control familiarity of the heli-chair would be another bonus. With all due respect, I'm just not sure that connecting the two is the best, or safest idea. Perhaps you could build a version with a USB interface and bundle it with FlightSim? (Have a look at http://www.simw.com/index.cfm?fuseac...details&pid=64 ) Si |
#10
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simon, thanks for your inputs. these are my thoughts on the points you
have mentioned: 1) the heli-chair can currently be used to interface with microsoft flight sim, x-plane or other flight sim software on the market by means of a USB cable. 2) a computer flight sim on the PC is not as 'real' as a real helicopter. in my humble opinion, current PC flight sim technology is woefully inadequate at modeling the physics of helicopter flight. some of the more developed sims with motion and wrap around screens are getting closer but the fact is that a computer program must always make certain assumptions in order to write the equations modeling the aircraft and atmosphere. this is why i call the heli-chair an "emulator" rather than a "simulator." it is doing everything that a real helicopter will do. 3) sitting in a chair or stading up, it really makes no difference if a model helicopter is headed your way because you don't know where it will end up and it moves faster than you can run. duck behind the chair for added protection if necessary. 4) if you have successfully learned to fly a real helicopter by learning first with your thumbs and fingers, in my opinion you are an exception and you have done something that most people wouldn't be able to do. i just don't think the average person can learn how to coordinate anti-torque pedals, throttle, collective and cyclic without actually having the controls to manipulate. the movements of the cyclic are similar when flying with the transmitter as compared to the real thing, but in my opinion are not 'substantially' similar as i would call the comparison between Heli-Chair and real helicopter. as mentioned earlier in the thread, the difference between a precision, spring centered gimbal (on your transmitter box) and a relatively imprecise cyclic stick are indeed significant. 5) the robinson R22 is a bit more stable in comparison to flying the heli-chair, and not vice versa. the sensitivity of the model simply by virtue of its size, weight and rotor disk loading makes it inherently more responsive to cyclic inputs. 6) i do not recommend using any of the mixing functions of the radio or features such as a heading hold gyro or governor to assist in flying the helicopter. they can be helpful for some aspects of initial learning but it is critical to turn all that stuff off and do it on your own. kas |
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