GPS instead of turn and bank

On Feb 4, 2:30 pm, "Tony" wrote:
How are you going to determine bank with a GPS?

The Garmin handhelds show a mini panel complete with a turn
corrdinator. The GPS knows your rate of turn. However, on the 296
there is enough delay that it isn't really simple to fly under the
hood on.

-Robert

Nomen Nescio writes:

You're the expert!
You figure it out.

It cannot be done.

--
Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.

Mxsmanic wrote:
Nomen Nescio writes:

You're the expert!
You figure it out.

It cannot be done.


Ok Anthony, explain how Garmin produces this page.

http://www.garmin.com/products/gpsma...y/image19.html

Gig 601XL Builder writes:

Ok Anthony, explain how Garmin produces this page.

http://www.garmin.com/products/gpsma...y/image19.html

By taking a screenshot of the unit.

As for the simulated instrument at the lower left, it provides only
rough information on the rate of a turn, not an indication of bank
angle. I note that Garmin itself doesn't appear to explain what the
simulated instrument is supposed to show exactly.

--
Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.

Robert M. Gary wrote:
On Feb 4, 2:30 pm, "Tony" wrote:

How are you going to determine bank with a GPS?


The Garmin handhelds show a mini panel complete with a turn
corrdinator. The GPS knows your rate of turn. However, on the 296
there is enough delay that it isn't really simple to fly under the
hood on.

I thought I heard that the new 296's had the better processor of the
396/496. Did that happen or not?

Peter,

Even the 5 Hz would drive me nuts!


Yeah, but you might live to tell us about it.

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

Nomen Nescio writes:

No. YOU can't do it.

The GPS unit cannot do it. Nor can any human being when limited to
the same information that the GPS has.

I can do it.
Real pilots CAN do it.
Why?

Not why, how. Show me how it's done. All you have is the ground
track of the aircraft. Explain how to calculate the bank angle from
this. Indeed, explain how to even unambiguously recognize a turn.

The rest of your tirade fails to answer the questions above despite
its length, and so I shall not address it here.

--
Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.

In article ,
Thomas Borchert wrote:

Danny,

I have been told that the heading
information from a GPS is good enough to do the function of a turn and bank
and allow emergency operations without having a visual horizon reference.


Aviation Consumer has tried flying only with reference to the instruments
page
on a Garmin 296 and 496. That page emulates the standard six-pack derived
from
GPS data. They say it worked. They also said the 5 Hz vs 1 Hz update rate of
the 496 improves the concept a lot.

I can't say I have a lot of experience doing this, but I've had a few
students who own these things try it. I put them under the hood, put us
into an unusual attitude, then they get to recover using just the synthetic
six-pack in their handheld GPS.

My experience so far is that if you take your hands off the yoke and just
apply whatever rudder inputs are needed to make the synthetic HSI indicate
a steady heading, you'll recover. It won't be pretty (or comfortable), but
you'll keep the dirty side down and won't pull the wings off the airplane.

The pitch information you get from the synthetic AI, VSI, ASI, and ALT
doesn't seem to be good enough to be useful, but fortunately most light
planes are pretty stable in pitch. Ride out a few fugoids while keeping
the HSI pointed in the same direction, and eventually you'll end up in a
stable attitude.

Mostly we do this in the Archers and Arrows. I'm not sure how well it
would work in something a bit less stable like a Bonanza or Mooney.

On Feb 6, 4:13 am, Mxsmanic wrote:
Nomen Nescio writes:
No. YOU can't do it.

The GPS unit cannot do it. Nor can any human being when limited to
the same information that the GPS has.

I can do it.
Real pilots CAN do it.
Why?

Not why, how. Show me how it's done. All you have is the ground
track of the aircraft. Explain how to calculate the bank angle from
this. Indeed, explain how to even unambiguously recognize a turn.

The rest of your tirade fails to answer the questions above despite
its length, and so I shall not address it here.

--
Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.

If you're interested I can expand slightly more on the "Mathematics"
that is involved in determining a virtual horizon. Please note that
there may be a discrepancy if you are not coordinated, this is also
true of the regular six-pack. Do the following:
Fly Straight and level, then apply full left rudder and strong right
aileron/bank. You might see that the turn/bank coordinator will show
a turn to the left, whereas the AI indicator shows a bank to the
right. Obviously in this case the GPS Horizon would show a bank to
the left, similarly the Garmin x96 HSI page will show a turn to the
left.
Cheers,
SwedeFlyer

writes:

If you're interested I can expand slightly more on the "Mathematics"
that is involved in determining a virtual horizon. Please note that
there may be a discrepancy if you are not coordinated, this is also
true of the regular six-pack.

If you cannot be sure that you are coordinated, you cannot hope to
calculate the bank angle.

--
Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.