Aeronca 11AC Chief Project FS

On Sun, 22 Jun 2008 14:10:15 -0700 (PDT), Victor Bravo
wrote:

On Jun 21, 8:59 am, "RST Engineering" wrote:
Wow, there's a hell of a deal. "Welding done" implies that the fuselage was
severely tweaked, and busted up so bad it needs an engine, struts and
"possibly" spars. Not a hell of a lot of paperwork. Sounds like it was
"groundlooped" into a bridge abutment.

I'll bet you've got 'em standing in line for this one, eh Berle?

Jim

You really are a putz, Mr. Weir.

Bill, so you're telling us something new?

On Sun, 22 Jun 2008 14:10:15 -0700 (PDT), Victor Bravo
wrote:


Have a look at the Zenair 601XL, where an airframe KIT costs you $20K.
Now look at the unfortunate and tragic problems the 601 is having with
the wings folding in flight, and compare it to an airplane with a 60
year safety record, full commercial FAA certification, and tell me
that this is not a reasonable bargain.

Wings folding in flight??
New one on me. The ONE I'm aware of had bolts not properly installed.
The other one, the wings were torn off when a couple of
drug-compromized idiots put it into a dive or something that GREATLY
exceeded VNE and tried to pull it out, or something like that.
The Aeronca Champ would have suffered the same fate in both cases.

That said, the Champ IS a great plane, at can be a great value as
well.


** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **

On Jun 22, 4:20 pm, clare at snyder dot ontario dot canada wrote:

The ONE I'm aware of had bolts not properly installed.
The other one, the wings were torn off when a couple of
drug-compromized idiots put it into a dive or something that GREATLY
exceeded VNE and tried to pull it out, or something like that.
The Aeronca Champ would have suffered the same fate in both cases.


I'm a very strong supporter of Chris Heintz, I have CH701 plans and
parts I will someday build on, and I am aware the Heintz is a very
highly accredited designer. However, the earlier 601 aircraft do not
have these problems, and the 601XL was a version that they had to work
very hard to get into the LSA weight class. The XL skins and
structure is not nearly as over-built on this airplane as is normal in
the light aircraft world. You cannot simply blame this on drug-crazed
hippies. An Aeronca Champ flown in turbulence, or over redline speed
would not suffer the same fate. It is a more rigid aircraft with
higher structural margins in my opinion. You can walk up to a CH601
and move the tip of the horizontal stabilizer fore and aft a very
disturbing amount (I have on three separate aircraft). The loads are
SUPPOSED to be symmetrical, so it SHOULD not be an issue, but the
structure is very light and can be moved far more than a Champ.

On 2008-06-23, Victor Bravo wrote:
You can walk up to a CH601 and move the tip of the horizontal stabilizer
fore and aft a very disturbing amount (I have on three separate aircraft).

What do you consider a "very disturbing amount"? I want to try it on my
Zodiac.
--
Jay Maynard, K5ZC http://www.conmicro.com
http://jmaynard.livejournal.com http://www.tronguy.net
Fairmont, MN (FRM) (Yes, that's me!)
AMD Zodiac CH601XLi N55ZC (got it!)

On Sun, 22 Jun 2008 19:20:26 -0400, clare at snyder dot ontario dot canada
wrote:

On Sun, 22 Jun 2008 14:10:15 -0700 (PDT), Victor Bravo
wrote:


Have a look at the Zenair 601XL, where an airframe KIT costs you $20K.
Now look at the unfortunate and tragic problems the 601 is having with
the wings folding in flight, and compare it to an airplane with a 60
year safety record, full commercial FAA certification, and tell me
that this is not a reasonable bargain.

Wings folding in flight??
New one on me. The ONE I'm aware of had bolts not properly installed.

Hmmmm. I presume this one is NTSB # LAX06LA105, but the online report says,
"Eleven of the main spar attach bolts were found in their normal position and
remained connected by their respective retaining nuts and washers. Recovery
personnel had disassembled the twelfth bolt during retrieval of the airplane."
Nothing mentioned about improper assembly.

The other one, the wings were torn off when a couple of
drug-compromized idiots put it into a dive or something that GREATLY
exceeded VNE and tried to pull it out, or something like that.
The Aeronca Champ would have suffered the same fate in both cases.

DFW07LA102 combined wing failure with the detection of some prescription meds in
the organs of the sole occupant...doesn't sound like the one you're referring
to. Was it a foreign crash?

In any case, I think the Fly Baby has the Zenair 601 beat. Out of 51 Fly Baby
crashes, 13 involved wing failure.

Ron Wanttaja

Ron Wanttaja wrote:
On Sun, 22 Jun 2008 19:20:26 -0400, clare at snyder dot ontario dot
canada wrote:

On Sun, 22 Jun 2008 14:10:15 -0700 (PDT), Victor Bravo
wrote:


Have a look at the Zenair 601XL, where an airframe KIT costs you
$20K. Now look at the unfortunate and tragic problems the 601 is
having with the wings folding in flight, and compare it to an
airplane with a 60 year safety record, full commercial FAA
certification, and tell me that this is not a reasonable bargain.

Wings folding in flight??
New one on me. The ONE I'm aware of had bolts not properly installed.

Hmmmm. I presume this one is NTSB # LAX06LA105, but the online report
says, "Eleven of the main spar attach bolts were found in their normal
position and remained connected by their respective retaining nuts and
washers. Recovery personnel had disassembled the twelfth bolt during
retrieval of the airplane." Nothing mentioned about improper assembly.

The other one, the wings were torn off when a couple of
drug-compromized idiots put it into a dive or something that GREATLY
exceeded VNE and tried to pull it out, or something like that.
The Aeronca Champ would have suffered the same fate in both cases.

DFW07LA102 combined wing failure with the detection of some
prescription meds in the organs of the sole occupant...doesn't sound
like the one you're referring to. Was it a foreign crash?

I may be mistaken, but I suspect that clare may be mis-remembering a CH-801
accident as one involving a CH-601. The following "drug-compromised
idiots" accident may be the mistaken one:

http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?e...12X00321&key=1

I found it notable for the simple fact that it is the only CH-801 fatal
accident I could find in the NTSB database.