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They call it the impossible turn.



 
 
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  #1  
Old February 9th 10, 07:58 AM posted to alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim,rec.aviation.piloting
Mxsmanic
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Posts: 9,169
Default They call it the impossible turn.

Dude writes:

http://flash.aopa.org/asf/pilotstori...WT.mc_sect=sap


I don't understand the point of the story. It's a really bad idea to do what
he did. Even he admits it. So why is it being featured? It's only going to
encourage other pilots to make the same mistake. "Well, I saw him do it in a
video, I can do that too." It looks like an excuse to show an interesting
video, in the guise of an article about safety, but it creates the dangerous
impression that a pilot can get away with something he's always been warned
against. The pilots most likely to interpret it in this way are also the ones
the least likely to be successful in their attempt to duplicate this feat.
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  #2  
Old February 9th 10, 10:28 AM posted to alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim,rec.aviation.piloting
Dude
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Posts: 12
Default They call it the impossible turn.

I wonder if he would have made the same decision if he was completely
dead stick. It seemed he still had partial power but not sure how much
if any it was helping him.

Cheers,
Chris
  #3  
Old February 9th 10, 11:18 PM posted to alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim,rec.aviation.piloting
FlyCherokee
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Posts: 9
Default They call it the impossible turn.

On Feb 9, 1:58*am, Mxsmanic wrote:
Dude writes:
http://flash.aopa.org/asf/pilotstori...WT.mc_id=10020....


I don't understand the point of the story. It's a really bad idea to do what
he did. Even he admits it. So why is it being featured? *It's only going to
encourage other pilots to make the same mistake. "Well, I saw him do it in a
video, I can do that too." It looks like an excuse to show an interesting
video, in the guise of an article about safety, but it creates the dangerous
impression that a pilot can get away with something he's always been warned
against. The pilots most likely to interpret it in this way are also the ones
the least likely to be successful in their attempt to duplicate this feat..


I thought the same thing when I saw that story. A really bad example
for the Air Safety Foundation to have selected. I'd like to hear
their rationale. "Don't turn back" is drilled in during training, and
here, they show us that it doesn't look so bad. I think I'll stick
with landing straight ahead, if it ever happens to me.
  #4  
Old February 10th 10, 01:53 AM posted to alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim,rec.aviation.piloting
Mxsmanic
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Posts: 9,169
Default They call it the impossible turn.

Clark writes:

The point of this type of "training" presentation is to get aviators to think
about a particular situation, review their training for that situation, and
perhaps take recurrent training. The outcome of one particular case isn't as
important as motivating aviators to update their training.


The point of this presentation is to attract viewers. Unfortunately, it will
have exactly the opposite effect of what you suggest. Many of the pilots
seeing the video will leave it with the impression that it is in fact safe to
try to turn back to the airport. They will retain the exception and forget the
rule. The pilots most likely to do this are the same ones who are already
prone to make this mistake themselves. Pilots who know better will not have
their minds changed by the video and will not profit from seeing it, since
they already know how dangerous it is to attempt this type of turn.

Pilots destined to kill themselves notice and retain only what reinforces what
they wish to believe; and they ignore everything else. Pilots destined never
to make this mistake already know of the danger in the maneuver and don't need
to be told how dangerous it is.
  #5  
Old February 10th 10, 01:55 AM posted to alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim,rec.aviation.piloting
Mxsmanic
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Posts: 9,169
Default They call it the impossible turn.

FlyCherokee writes:

I thought the same thing when I saw that story. A really bad example
for the Air Safety Foundation to have selected. I'd like to hear
their rationale.


I'm sure the rationale is to attract people to the site through a voyeuristic
look at a near-tragedy. It is disguised as a warning even though it is
actually an invitation to ignore best practices and expert advice. I'm sure
there are one or more pilots out there who will actually feel free to try
turning now, since they've seen proof that someone has done so and survived.

"Don't turn back" is drilled in during training, and
here, they show us that it doesn't look so bad. I think I'll stick
with landing straight ahead, if it ever happens to me.


That is wise.
  #6  
Old February 10th 10, 11:42 PM posted to alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim,rec.aviation.piloting
Mxsmanic
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Posts: 9,169
Default They call it the impossible turn.

Clark writes:

I see that you fail to understand the nature of training. Fine. Good luck
with your attempts to understand avaiation. Perhaps if you'd get some real
training and real flight experience you'd do a better job of comprehending
the true nature of training and currency.


This particular case is easy to understand: Do not attempt to turn around and
return to the departure field in the event of total engine failure. It has
nothing to do with me. Thousands of aviation training sources say this very
thing. Do you not agree with it?
  #7  
Old February 11th 10, 12:31 AM posted to alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim,rec.aviation.piloting
FlyCherokee
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Posts: 9
Default They call it the impossible turn.

On Feb 9, 7:55*pm, Mxsmanic wrote:
FlyCherokee writes:
I thought the same thing when I saw that story. *A really bad example
for the Air Safety Foundation to have selected. *I'd like to hear
their rationale.


I'm sure the rationale is to attract people to the site through a voyeuristic
look at a near-tragedy. It is disguised as a warning even though it is
actually an invitation to ignore best practices and expert advice.


I hope not, and I don't think so; that has not been their style in the
past. I'd hate to think ASF has lowered themselves to that level to
attract readers (and donors). I'm quite surprised by that video. I'm
a supporter and contributor to ASF; I feel like emailing them to try
to find out what their objective was.
  #8  
Old February 11th 10, 01:23 PM posted to alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim,rec.aviation.piloting
Mxsmanic
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Posts: 9,169
Default They call it the impossible turn.

Clark writes:

The actual training which you have never had and clearly don't understand is
to know when turning back is not an option.


It's the other way around: Training is intended to make it clear that turning
back is not an option by default, not by exception. As a general rule, you
never try to turn around.

As a side note since you obviously don't understand the entire problem
presented in the ASF short, the aircraft did not suffer a total power loss.


That's probably why he lived. But many pilots will accidentally or
deliberately overlook that important detail.
  #9  
Old February 11th 10, 01:40 PM posted to alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim,rec.aviation.piloting
Mxsmanic
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Posts: 9,169
Default They call it the impossible turn.

FlyCherokee writes:

I hope not, and I don't think so; that has not been their style in the
past. I'd hate to think ASF has lowered themselves to that level to
attract readers (and donors).


I'm sure their intentions are noble, but everybody has rent to pay.
  #10  
Old February 11th 10, 03:14 PM posted to alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim,rec.aviation.piloting
Ricky
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Posts: 259
Default They call it the impossible turn.

On Feb 11, 6:23*am, Mxsmanic wrote:

It's the other way around: Training is intended to make it clear that turning
back is not an option by default, not by exception. As a general rule, you
never try to turn around.


You are so wrong.
You do not fly, have never had any flight training, and anything that
comes from you should not be taken seriously.

 




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