Slow Flight

There is little doubt in my mind that the ability to do slow flight at
the very edge of stall speed will do more to prevent accidents than
1000 hours of cruise speed flight. Is there anyone here who is
proficient that lands their aircraft more than 10kts above stall
speed?
I teach all my students to slow fly with the entire range of
configurations for the particular aircraft they are flying. Gear up/
down, flaps up/down/in-between. I want them to be comfortable flying
at the very edge of the stall speeds and spend a lot of time
maneuvering right on the edge of a stall "nibble". It does more for
pilot confidence and ability than anything else I can think of. They
learn proper control useage and how their particular aircraft responds
while in the low speed areas. Playing with different angles of bank
while at low speeds and flying with a modicum of accuracy does a lot
for proper control use.
If you think about it, how many accidents occur in the low speed
spectrum? Either from a stall, or from a high sink rate on approach,
or poor control use during an emergency or off airport landing, or
something similar?
In my opinion, the pilot who is comfortable throughout the entire
speed range of their aircraft is a properly trained pilot and one who
will not get into an inadvertant stall, or spin.
What are your thoughts?

On Sat, 08 Sep 2007 11:03:45 -0700, Ol Shy & Bashful
wrote:

There is little doubt in my mind that the ability to do slow flight at
the very edge of stall speed will do more to prevent accidents than
1000 hours of cruise speed flight.

What are your thoughts?

I'm a member of your choir. G

"Ol" == Ol Shy & Bashful writes:

Ol There is little doubt in my mind that the ability to do slow
Ol flight at the very edge of stall speed will do more to prevent
Ol accidents than 1000 hours of cruise speed flight.
.. . .
Ol What are your thoughts?

Can't agree. The single best thing I did with an airplane to improve
my confidence and safety was fly a cross-country to Oshkosh from
California with a more experienced friend, each in our own airplane.

But others will agree with you. The point is that there are several
areas of aviation and flight that are important, and different people
will have different needs in those areas. Your students are probably
proficient in slow flight, that's good. How well would they do with a
long cross country and handling weather issues?

There are only so many hours of training to give, and the reality is
that a fresh pilot just receiving their PP-ASEL doesn't know
much. Perhaps the best thing an instructor can do is see that their
students understand their ignorance but also understand how they can
use their new license to improve.

--
It is a mistake to think you can solve any major problems just with
potatoes.
Douglas Adams

On Sat, 08 Sep 2007 12:49:11 -0700, Bob Fry
wrote:

Can't agree. The single best thing I did with an airplane to improve
my confidence and safety was fly a cross-country to Oshkosh from
California with a more experienced friend, each in our own airplane.

What about all those who get the same number of hours you flew on that
trip within 50 miles of home?

Slow flight is a skill. Crosswind landing is a skill. Exposure to long
trips and making difficult decisions under varying weather conditions
is experience. The right combination of skill and experience is what
makes a pilot "mature" and safe.



On Sep 8, 3:49 pm, Bob Fry wrote:
"Ol" == Ol Shy & Bashful writes:

Ol There is little doubt in my mind that the ability to do slow
Ol flight at the very edge of stall speed will do more to prevent
Ol accidents than 1000 hours of cruise speed flight.
. . .
Ol What are your thoughts?

Can't agree. The single best thing I did with an airplane to improve
my confidence and safety was fly a cross-country to Oshkosh from
California with a more experienced friend, each in our own airplane.

But others will agree with you. The point is that there are several
areas of aviation and flight that are important, and different people
will have different needs in those areas. Your students are probably
proficient in slow flight, that's good. How well would they do with a
long cross country and handling weather issues?

There are only so many hours of training to give, and the reality is
that a fresh pilot just receiving their PP-ASEL doesn't know
much. Perhaps the best thing an instructor can do is see that their
students understand their ignorance but also understand how they can
use their new license to improve.

--
It is a mistake to think you can solve any major problems just with
potatoes.
Douglas Adams

On Sat, 08 Sep 2007 16:10:21 -0700, Andrew Sarangan
wrote:

Slow flight is a skill. Crosswind landing is a skill. Exposure to long
trips and making difficult decisions under varying weather conditions
is experience. The right combination of skill and experience is what
makes a pilot "mature" and safe.

I agree with that assessment to a point.

It works IF they have the judgmental ability make use of that skill
and experience. I've seen several pilots lose that ability and I've
seen some that never had it and even with over a 100 hours of training
were never going to be safe.

Roger (K8RI)

On Sep 8, 9:57 pm, "Roger (K8RI)" wrote:
On Sat, 08 Sep 2007 16:10:21 -0700, Andrew Sarangan

wrote:
Slow flight is a skill. Crosswind landing is a skill. Exposure to long
trips and making difficult decisions under varying weather conditions
is experience. The right combination of skill and experience is what
makes a pilot "mature" and safe.

I agree with that assessment to a point.

It works IF they have the judgmental ability make use of that skill
and experience. I've seen several pilots lose that ability and I've
seen some that never had it and even with over a 100 hours of training
were never going to be safe.

Roger (K8RI)

Yeah. The old saying, "Attitude is Everything" applies here. I have
known pilots with skill and experience that were unsafe. They have too
much of one or more of the fatal attitudes: Machoism, Invincibility,
Anti-Authority, Resignation, or Impulsiveness. All of these things are
present in varying degrees in all of us, and some pilots have one or
more in spades. There's trouble on the way for those folks.
There's a psychological test to determine where we sit on
these things. We use it in our PPL groundschool to try to wake up the
dangerous ones. They need to know that their attitudes can kill them
regardless of skill or knowledge or experience.

Dan

On Sep 9, 10:57 am, wrote:
On Sep 8, 9:57 pm, "Roger (K8RI)" wrote:





On Sat, 08 Sep 2007 16:10:21 -0700, Andrew Sarangan

wrote:
Slow flight is a skill. Crosswind landing is a skill. Exposure to long
trips and making difficult decisions under varying weather conditions
is experience. The right combination of skill and experience is what
makes a pilot "mature" and safe.

I agree with that assessment to a point.

It works IF they have the judgmental ability make use of that skill
and experience. I've seen several pilots lose that ability and I've
seen some that never had it and even with over a 100 hours of training
were never going to be safe.

Roger (K8RI)

Yeah. The old saying, "Attitude is Everything" applies here. I have
known pilots with skill and experience that were unsafe. They have too
much of one or more of the fatal attitudes: Machoism, Invincibility,
Anti-Authority, Resignation, or Impulsiveness. All of these things are
present in varying degrees in all of us, and some pilots have one or
more in spades. There's trouble on the way for those folks.
There's a psychological test to determine where we sit on
these things. We use it in our PPL groundschool to try to wake up the
dangerous ones. They need to know that their attitudes can kill them
regardless of skill or knowledge or experience.

Dan- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -


I was not aware that there was a psychological test for this. Can you
give pointers to where I can get more details?

Dan wrote:
Yeah. The old saying, "Attitude is Everything" applies here.

Actually, it would be more correct to say "Attitude is Nothing" when
discussing stalls.

Hilton

Bob Fry wrote:
"Ol" == Ol Shy & Bashful writes:

Ol There is little doubt in my mind that the ability to do slow
Ol flight at the very edge of stall speed will do more to prevent
Ol accidents than 1000 hours of cruise speed flight.
. . .
Ol What are your thoughts?


Correct! We fly gliders/sailplanes 2 knots above stall in a 60
degree bank for HOURS...while circling in lift. How many glider
accidents are there (stall/spin) vs how many airplane accidents are
there (stall/spin)?

TRAINING! With TRAINING, it is safe to do the same in a C152!
You MIGHT even go soaring!!! (Note: soaring is when you are
going up and gliding is when you are going down). :-)

Best regards,

Jer/ "Flight instruction and mountain flying are my vocations!"
--
Jer/ (Slash) Eberhard, Mountain Flying Aviation, LTD, Ft Collins, CO
CELL 970 231-6325 EMAIL jer'at'frii.com http://users.frii.com/jer/
C-206, CFII Airplane&Glider, FAA-DEN Aviation Safety Counselor
CAP-CO Mission&Aircraft CheckPilot BM218 HAM N0FZD 263 Young Eagles!