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#41
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Why nitrogen?
on 9/16/2008 6:31 PM Peter Dohm said the following:
Ordinarily, I would just let this slide; but since the greenies have decided that CO2 (which is nature's means of recycling oxygen) and O3 (which is nature's cleanser of the atmosphere) are "pollutants" according to the strange reasoning of their adled brains, I feel compelled to point out that I suggested that the aircraft would be sheltered in a hangar--which would protect the outsides of the tires from part of the damage. They still won't last until the treads wear out, but it will help. You're suggesting hangars are so airtight that CO2 and O3 are somehow sealed away from the tires inside? The effect of O3 on tires is not through increased UV or global warming. It's direct chemical interaction with the polymer chains in the rubber compounds. |
#42
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Why nitrogen?
"Rich Ahrens" wrote in message
. net... on 9/16/2008 6:31 PM Peter Dohm said the following: Ordinarily, I would just let this slide; but since the greenies have decided that CO2 (which is nature's means of recycling oxygen) and O3 (which is nature's cleanser of the atmosphere) are "pollutants" according to the strange reasoning of their adled brains, I feel compelled to point out that I suggested that the aircraft would be sheltered in a hangar--which would protect the outsides of the tires from part of the damage. They still won't last until the treads wear out, but it will help. You're suggesting hangars are so airtight that CO2 and O3 are somehow sealed away from the tires inside? The effect of O3 on tires is not through increased UV or global warming. It's direct chemical interaction with the polymer chains in the rubber compounds. Not at all. However, UV is supposedly a player in rubber deterioration. There is not much you can do about O3, you'll just have to live with it. |
#43
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Why nitrogen?
on 9/16/2008 8:39 PM Peter Dohm said the following:
"Rich Ahrens" wrote in message . net... on 9/16/2008 6:31 PM Peter Dohm said the following: Ordinarily, I would just let this slide; but since the greenies have decided that CO2 (which is nature's means of recycling oxygen) and O3 (which is nature's cleanser of the atmosphere) are "pollutants" according to the strange reasoning of their adled brains, I feel compelled to point out that I suggested that the aircraft would be sheltered in a hangar--which would protect the outsides of the tires from part of the damage. They still won't last until the treads wear out, but it will help. You're suggesting hangars are so airtight that CO2 and O3 are somehow sealed away from the tires inside? The effect of O3 on tires is not through increased UV or global warming. It's direct chemical interaction with the polymer chains in the rubber compounds. Not at all. However, UV is supposedly a player in rubber deterioration. Via a separate mechanism. That's why tires are made and/or treated with ozone protection additives. There is not much you can do about O3, you'll just have to live with it. Bull****. Reduce the amount of hydrocarbon and nitrogen oxides emitted by various sources and you reduce the amount of low-level ozone produced by their interactions. I'm not talking about the ozone layer here. I mean the air we're breathing at our level of the atmosphere. |
#44
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Why nitrogen?
"Peter Dohm" wrote in
: In the case of light plane tires, I agree with you that really dry air should work well enough to make the issue trivial. But, if you need nitrogen for any other reason, it is the cheapest thing that I know of in an L bottle or larger and using it in the tires may be essentially free--because you may have to pay rental on the tanks if they are not refilled at a prescribed interval. My daughter is a Crew Chief on a C-130 Herc and said that Nitrogen is used in the struts. -- |
#45
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Why nitrogen?
"Morgans" wrote in message ... "Peter Dohm" wrote It appears that they were lucky and the oxygen was'nt needed; but it does remind me of some of the speculation surrunding the Paine Stewart case. Two hypotheses around my local airport were that 1) the tank was inadvertantly filled with nitrogen or 2) that someone misread the labeling on the regulator on/off handle--which is counterintuitively labeled with "on" or "off" and arrows pointing which direction to turn the knob for the desired result. I don't recall whether the case was ever fully resolved; but a lot of pilots found a couple of areas worthy of their maximum vigilance! Learjets don't use bottled oxygen; they have pressurized air from the engines. -- Jim in NC Learjets do indeed use bottled oxygen and it is found in the nose bay area. There is a thin capillary that runs into the cockpit to a pressure gauge. The pressure gauge displays the pressure in the tank regardless of whether the valve is turned on or off. The pressure in the tank can read full on the ground but at low temperature at altitude will read several hundred pounds less. -- *H. Allen Smith* WACO - We are all here, because we are not all there. |
#46
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Why nitrogen?
"Rich Ahrens" wrote in message
. net... on 9/16/2008 8:39 PM Peter Dohm said the following: "Rich Ahrens" wrote in message . net... on 9/16/2008 6:31 PM Peter Dohm said the following: Ordinarily, I would just let this slide; but since the greenies have decided that CO2 (which is nature's means of recycling oxygen) and O3 (which is nature's cleanser of the atmosphere) are "pollutants" according to the strange reasoning of their adled brains, I feel compelled to point out that I suggested that the aircraft would be sheltered in a hangar--which would protect the outsides of the tires from part of the damage. They still won't last until the treads wear out, but it will help. You're suggesting hangars are so airtight that CO2 and O3 are somehow sealed away from the tires inside? The effect of O3 on tires is not through increased UV or global warming. It's direct chemical interaction with the polymer chains in the rubber compounds. Not at all. However, UV is supposedly a player in rubber deterioration. Via a separate mechanism. That's why tires are made and/or treated with ozone protection additives. There is not much you can do about O3, you'll just have to live with it. Bull****. Reduce the amount of hydrocarbon and nitrogen oxides emitted by various sources and you reduce the amount of low-level ozone produced by their interactions. I'm not talking about the ozone layer here. I mean the air we're breathing at our level of the atmosphere. ....and YOU are going to accomplish all of that for the good of your tires in YOUR hangar... WOW! I'm VERY impressed. |
#47
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Why nitrogen?
"Peter Dohm" wrote in message . .. "Rich Ahrens" wrote in message . net... on 9/16/2008 8:39 PM Peter Dohm said the following: "Rich Ahrens" wrote in message . net... on 9/16/2008 6:31 PM Peter Dohm said the following: Ordinarily, I would just let this slide; but since the greenies have decided that CO2 (which is nature's means of recycling oxygen) and O3 (which is nature's cleanser of the atmosphere) are "pollutants" according to the strange reasoning of their adled brains, I feel compelled to point out that I suggested that the aircraft would be sheltered in a hangar--which would protect the outsides of the tires from part of the damage. They still won't last until the treads wear out, but it will help. You're suggesting hangars are so airtight that CO2 and O3 are somehow sealed away from the tires inside? The effect of O3 on tires is not through increased UV or global warming. It's direct chemical interaction with the polymer chains in the rubber compounds. Not at all. However, UV is supposedly a player in rubber deterioration. Via a separate mechanism. That's why tires are made and/or treated with ozone protection additives. There is not much you can do about O3, you'll just have to live with it. Bull****. Reduce the amount of hydrocarbon and nitrogen oxides emitted by various sources and you reduce the amount of low-level ozone produced by their interactions. I'm not talking about the ozone layer here. I mean the air we're breathing at our level of the atmosphere. ...and YOU are going to accomplish all of that for the good of your tires in YOUR hangar... WOW! I'm VERY impressed. Yeah! Me too! |
#48
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Why nitrogen?
"John Godwin" wrote in message
... "Peter Dohm" wrote in : In the case of light plane tires, I agree with you that really dry air should work well enough to make the issue trivial. But, if you need nitrogen for any other reason, it is the cheapest thing that I know of in an L bottle or larger and using it in the tires may be essentially free--because you may have to pay rental on the tanks if they are not refilled at a prescribed interval. My daughter is a Crew Chief on a C-130 Herc and said that Nitrogen is used in the struts. -- I'm sure that they use nitrogen in the tires as well--even though they run at less than half of the pressure of a lot of the heavy jets--it just makes sense to use it when you have it available. Getting back to the original subject of whether nitrogen behaves in a manner more like an "ideal gas" than air, aside from the issue of reactivity, the answer is yes--especially as pressure is increased and/or temperature is decreased. Basically, it is relatively easy to have nitrogen that is extremely dry because it it normally dispensed from the top of a very high pressure storage bottle--with the result that nearly all of any water vapor and/or CO2 that is in the bottle will be left in a condensed form at the bottom of the bottle. |
#49
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Why nitrogen?
"Allen" wrote Learjets do indeed use bottled oxygen and it is found in the nose bay area. There is a thin capillary that runs into the cockpit to a pressure gauge. The pressure gauge displays the pressure in the tank regardless of whether the valve is turned on or off. The pressure in the tank can read full on the ground but at low temperature at altitude will read several hundred pounds less. They do? For primary breathing air at altitude? Is there no cabin air pressurization provided by bleed air from the engines? I'm not doubting your word, just trying to understand. I thought all bizjets used bleed air to pressurize the cabins. -- Jim in NC |
#50
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Why nitrogen?
John Godwin wrote in news:Xns9B1BD7A3321FBAvSvcs@
208.49.82.60: "Peter Dohm" wrote in : In the case of light plane tires, I agree with you that really dry air should work well enough to make the issue trivial. But, if you need nitrogen for any other reason, it is the cheapest thing that I know of in an L bottle or larger and using it in the tires may be essentially free--because you may have to pay rental on the tanks if they are not refilled at a prescribed interval. My daughter is a Crew Chief on a C-130 Herc and said that Nitrogen is used in the struts. Your daughter smokes cigars? Bertie |
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