Self-launch v Sustainer

OK, let me try to clarify too.
When I said I'd like a self-launch engineered by Honda I really
meant the whole package, not just the core engine. I'd agree
that many of the self-launch problems are not with the core
engine but equally some are very definitely core engine
related.

Let's imagine that you are a German engineer given a blank
piece of paper and asked to design a water cooled two cylinder
two stroke specifically for installation in a self-launch. Years
down the line what have we have got; an engine/installation
that suffers: -
Cylinder head cracks.
Cylinder base gasket leaks.
Iffy crankcase/cylinder head bolts.
Drive belts that fail.

We all know that German engineering can, sometimes, be the
best in the world....I just think it's not very evident in some of
the self-launchers currently on offer.

Of course if you fly from 8000 foot runways surrounded by nice
flat fields this may be less of a worry than flying from many
European glider sites.

Happy landings (and take offs), Dave W.

On Wednesday, November 2, 2016 at 9:45:06 AM UTC-4, Dave Walsh wrote:
We all know that German engineering can, sometimes, be the
best in the world....I just think it's not very evident in some of
the self-launchers currently on offer.

I'm glad you don't know how sausages are made ;-)

The problem is simply economic: For the tiny glider market,
it is utterly impossible to afford the testing and refinement
that goes into a modern automobile. Hence our toys will
NEVER approach the latter's reliability.

The motor certification costs have blocked for example the
higher-power motor originally planned for the ASH-30 and ASG-32,
hence the current situation...

Its all about costs.

From guy who does finance and management as well as engineering ;-)

See ya, Dave

German, Japanese, American, Chinese... Engineering is engineering and
has nothing to do with nationality. The final product has more to do
with marketing and manufacturing decisions and materials choices than
differential equations. Think King Tiger tank, vastly under powered for
its size or anything made in China with pot metal fasteners (at least
those things sold in the US) that twist apart at the slightest extra
torque. An aircraft power plant has to be light and powerful, but the
lighter you make something, the less strength and durability it will have.

Like we used to say in the defense industry: Cost, Schedule, Quality -
pick any two.

On 11/2/2016 7:32 AM, Dave Walsh wrote:
OK, let me try to clarify too.
When I said I'd like a self-launch engineered by Honda I really
meant the whole package, not just the core engine. I'd agree
that many of the self-launch problems are not with the core
engine but equally some are very definitely core engine
related.

Let's imagine that you are a German engineer given a blank
piece of paper and asked to design a water cooled two cylinder
two stroke specifically for installation in a self-launch. Years
down the line what have we have got; an engine/installation
that suffers: -
Cylinder head cracks.
Cylinder base gasket leaks.
Iffy crankcase/cylinder head bolts.
Drive belts that fail.

We all know that German engineering can, sometimes, be the
best in the world....I just think it's not very evident in some of
the self-launchers currently on offer.

Of course if you fly from 8000 foot runways surrounded by nice
flat fields this may be less of a worry than flying from many
European glider sites.

Happy landings (and take offs), Dave W.






--
Dan, 5J

Didn't they also build the Hindenburg and the Audi 100? Two examples of **** poor engineering!!


On Wednesday, November 2, 2016 at 6:45:06 AM UTC-7, Dave Walsh wrote:
.....
We all know that German engineering can, sometimes, be the
best in the world....I just think it's not very evident in some of
the self-launchers currently on offer.

....

Happy landings (and take offs), Dave W.

We have owned a Duo Discus T (sustainer engine) for ten years or so. It probably has less than ten hours on the engine. My theory is the less you use it, the less likely there will be major repair expenses. I Recall only two times when it was necessary to start the engine rather than landing out. (In Florida)

Cobra one man rigging tool works fine, and I usually assemble it myself.

We are preparing to retire and will be selling this glider if you are interested..

Tom Knauff

On Saturday, October 29, 2016 at 1:17:47 PM UTC-7, Duster wrote:
Retired now and looking to purchase a motorized glider; weighing the pros and cons of self-launchers v sustainers. Two-placer is a priority, as I would like to take my wife. Single place acceptable as long as I can keep her happy sightseeing. We plan on extensive travelling, some to both established and unestablished (i.e., w/o tugs avail) soaring areas (esp. ridge/mountain/wave). Is the weight penalty the chief difference? Engine reliability? Maintenance? Minimum 18m? Some of you may recommend getting some first-hand experience at a commercial operation; where would that be?

Any feedback appreciated, even if just to eliminate models to stay away from.
Mike

If you are curious about what it takes to disasemble a Stemme and considering a Cobra trailer instead of a hangar you may want to look at this video. The center panel is 400lb and needs to be lifted over the canopy....

https://youtu.be/ejpUGpZ2vhc

On Tuesday, November 8, 2016 at 12:27:29 PM UTC-8, Chris wrote:
If you are curious about what it takes to disasemble a Stemme and considering a Cobra trailer instead of a hangar you may want to look at this video.. The center panel is 400lb and needs to be lifted over the canopy....

https://youtu.be/ejpUGpZ2vhc

And the video of assembling an S10 by two pilots wearing very smart lab coats is even better. At least they don't have to pull off the nose cone. Love the collection of extra trailer parts.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Vtn-32cvY8

Is that Unterwössen? (Mit Umlaut)
Jim

No. That's Bex in Switzerland where I fly.

On Tuesday, November 8, 2016 at 8:09:30 PM UTC-8, Tango Whisky wrote:
No. That's Bex in Switzerland where I fly.

Cool, Bert. You fly in a wonderful place. I've driven past Bex to work in Brig.
Unterwössen was the first alpine site with an umlaut that came to mind..

The Stemme rigging video makes an ASH25 seem like Kinderspiel!
Jim