Jepp no longer in the GA business...?

I went to get my new IFR charts today and my local pilot shop told me they
will no longer be carrying Jepp products. I know that some places have
already stopped, but at PAO/RHV they thought up until a few days ago that
they would be able to carry on.

Seems someone at Jepp has had the brilliant idea to stop retail sales of
their chart products to force people to subscribe. I don't like being
blackmailed at any time, and the NOS charts are fine - I prefer Jepp but not
THAT much - so that's the end of Jepp as far as I'm concerned.

Some quick math suggests that Jepp have just kissed goodbye to $10-20M of
business/year. What are they thinking?

John

"John Harper" wrote in message
news:1086932410.221952@sj-nntpcache-5...
I went to get my new IFR charts today and my local pilot shop told me they
will no longer be carrying Jepp products. I know that some places have
already stopped, but at PAO/RHV they thought up until a few days ago that
they would be able to carry on.

Seems someone at Jepp has had the brilliant idea to stop retail sales of
their chart products to force people to subscribe. I don't like being
blackmailed at any time, and the NOS charts are fine - I prefer Jepp but
not
THAT much - so that's the end of Jepp as far as I'm concerned.

Some quick math suggests that Jepp have just kissed goodbye to $10-20M of
business/year. What are they thinking?

They were thinking that the business they would lose by doing this would be
far less than the cost of buying back all those unused retail kits every
month, a condition demanded by more and more retailers. They were thinking
that they could reduce an enormous GA liability problem, seeing that
airplanes piloted by professional pilots have a much better safety record
than airplanes piloted by, well, unprofessional pilots. They were thinking
that most pilot shops refused to carry their products anyway. They were
thinking that their electronic chart business is expanding at the expense of
their paper chart business. They were thinking that by making people
subscribe they are reducing the chance of an accident caused by cheapskates
who don't keep their charts current. They were thinking that they could
actually reduce overall distribution costs. They were thinking that they
could cut out the middleman in an already low margin business.

Some quick math suggests that Jepp have just kissed goodbye to $10-20M of
business/year. What are they thinking?

They were thinking that the business they would lose by doing this would be
far less than the cost of buying back all those unused retail kits every
month, a condition demanded by more and more retailers. They were thinking
that they could reduce an enormous GA liability problem, seeing that
airplanes piloted by professional pilots have a much better safety record
than airplanes piloted by, well, unprofessional pilots. They were thinking
that most pilot shops refused to carry their products anyway. They were
thinking that their electronic chart business is expanding at the expense of
their paper chart business. They were thinking that by making people
subscribe they are reducing the chance of an accident caused by cheapskates
who don't keep their charts current. They were thinking that they could
actually reduce overall distribution costs. They were thinking that they
could cut out the middleman in an already low margin business.

How do you know all this inside thinking by the folks at Jeppesen?

wrote in message ...

How do you know all this inside thinking by the folks at Jeppesen?


I don't, of course. But that does not mean that I can't make an educated
guess as to what is going on. I will bet that my points are pretty close to
what Jeppesen was thinking -- far closer than the assumed "what were they
thinking" random business decision....

Just because companies have thought about things doesn't
mean they got it right (and I really DO know from
experience!).

My local pilot shop was selling 200 packs of CA charts
per month at $35 (or so) each. There were never any
left at the end of the month so I guess that wasn't an issue.
How many of those people will buy a subscription? Not
many is my guess, they'll just buy NOS instead. Across
the whole country that looks like significant revenue to
me.

So I still think this was a dumb decision, even given your list
of possible reasons why they may have made it.

John

"C J Campbell" wrote in message
...

wrote in message ...

How do you know all this inside thinking by the folks at Jeppesen?


I don't, of course. But that does not mean that I can't make an educated
guess as to what is going on. I will bet that my points are pretty close
to
what Jeppesen was thinking -- far closer than the assumed "what were they
thinking" random business decision....

"John Harper" wrote in
news:1086982699.64889@sj-nntpcache-3:

Just because companies have thought about things doesn't
mean they got it right (and I really DO know from
experience!).

My local pilot shop was selling 200 packs of CA charts
per month at $35 (or so) each. There were never any
left at the end of the month so I guess that wasn't an issue.
How many of those people will buy a subscription? Not
many is my guess, they'll just buy NOS instead. Across
the whole country that looks like significant revenue to
me.

So I still think this was a dumb decision, even given your list
of possible reasons why they may have made it.

John

"C J Campbell" wrote in
message ...

wrote in message
...

How do you know all this inside thinking by the folks at Jeppesen?


I don't, of course. But that does not mean that I can't make an
educated guess as to what is going on. I will bet that my points are
pretty close
to
what Jeppesen was thinking -- far closer than the assumed "what were
they thinking" random business decision....





My local pilot shop told me yesterday that Jeppesen is going to start
supplying the Airway Express packs again.

There has been a big increase in subscription prices. I just got my
renewal form from Jeppesen and the increase is over 25%. Prior to this
year, the highest annual increase was 6% and most years it was between 3
to 5%.

Jeppesen has cheapened the Airway Express subscription. One of the things
I liked about it was that it was a complete replacement of the old pack.
Now, they've divided it into two parts. Part I is all the informational
pages AND the enroute charts. These are replaced only as needed via
specific page update. The approach plates are in part II which is
completely replaced every 8 weeks.

--
Marty Shapiro
Silicon Rallye Inc.

(remove SPAMNOT to email me)

Do you know these points to be facts, or are these simply your
opinions of likely reasons?

Most of your points make a lot of sense and I could understand why
Jepp wouldn't want to deal with the hassle of retail sales, especially
since mail order and on-line sales work so easily.

Is GA liabiliy really an issue? I would imagine that most GA pilots
who use Jepp products do not buy them retail.

By the way, I've found Jepp to be very flexible and helpful. I've had
them replace charts and plates free of charge even when their getting
"lost in the mail" was my fault.



"C J Campbell" wrote in message ...
"John Harper" wrote in message
news:1086932410.221952@sj-nntpcache-5...
I went to get my new IFR charts today and my local pilot shop told me they
will no longer be carrying Jepp products. I know that some places have
already stopped, but at PAO/RHV they thought up until a few days ago that
they would be able to carry on.

Seems someone at Jepp has had the brilliant idea to stop retail sales of
their chart products to force people to subscribe. I don't like being
blackmailed at any time, and the NOS charts are fine - I prefer Jepp but
not
THAT much - so that's the end of Jepp as far as I'm concerned.

Some quick math suggests that Jepp have just kissed goodbye to $10-20M of
business/year. What are they thinking?

They were thinking that the business they would lose by doing this would be
far less than the cost of buying back all those unused retail kits every
month, a condition demanded by more and more retailers. They were thinking
that they could reduce an enormous GA liability problem, seeing that
airplanes piloted by professional pilots have a much better safety record
than airplanes piloted by, well, unprofessional pilots. They were thinking
that most pilot shops refused to carry their products anyway. They were
thinking that their electronic chart business is expanding at the expense of
their paper chart business. They were thinking that by making people
subscribe they are reducing the chance of an accident caused by cheapskates
who don't keep their charts current. They were thinking that they could
actually reduce overall distribution costs. They were thinking that they
could cut out the middleman in an already low margin business.

John Harper wrote:


their chart products to force people to subscribe. I don't like being
blackmailed at any time, and the NOS charts are fine - I prefer Jepp but not
THAT much - so that's the end of Jepp as far as I'm concerned.


If your instrument flying is limited to the U.S. why not forget Jeppesen and,
instead, use the new NACO vector-graphics charts, which are free.

There used to be a real issue of print quality of the bitmap NACO charts offered
by AOPA and others. Not so now that NACO has provided the charts in vector
graphics and, unlike Jeppesen, in a very convenient stand-alone Acrobat file
format. And, when you print out the NACO chart on a good printer it is full
page without any license BS cluttering the top of the chart.

If you fly internationally, then you're stuck with Jepps. In that case, money
usually isn't a big deal so you shower Jeppesen with lots of long green for
extensive international coverage.

wrote:

John Harper wrote:



their chart products to force people to subscribe. I don't like being
blackmailed at any time, and the NOS charts are fine - I prefer Jepp but not
THAT much - so that's the end of Jepp as far as I'm concerned.



If your instrument flying is limited to the U.S. why not forget Jeppesen and,
instead, use the new NACO vector-graphics charts, which are free.

There used to be a real issue of print quality of the bitmap NACO charts offered
by AOPA and others. Not so now that NACO has provided the charts in vector
graphics and, unlike Jeppesen, in a very convenient stand-alone Acrobat file
format. And, when you print out the NACO chart on a good printer it is full
page without any license BS cluttering the top of the chart.

If you fly internationally, then you're stuck with Jepps. In that case, money
usually isn't a big deal so you shower Jeppesen with lots of long green for
extensive international coverage.


So is there some good software for cockpit computers that integrates the
NACO charts in a reasonable way ? I can't see fooling with acrobat
reader every time I need to bring up an approach....

Scott Moore wrote:

wrote:

John Harper wrote:



their chart products to force people to subscribe. I don't like being
blackmailed at any time, and the NOS charts are fine - I prefer Jepp but not
THAT much - so that's the end of Jepp as far as I'm concerned.



If your instrument flying is limited to the U.S. why not forget Jeppesen and,
instead, use the new NACO vector-graphics charts, which are free.

There used to be a real issue of print quality of the bitmap NACO charts offered
by AOPA and others. Not so now that NACO has provided the charts in vector
graphics and, unlike Jeppesen, in a very convenient stand-alone Acrobat file
format. And, when you print out the NACO chart on a good printer it is full
page without any license BS cluttering the top of the chart.

If you fly internationally, then you're stuck with Jepps. In that case, money
usually isn't a big deal so you shower Jeppesen with lots of long green for
extensive international coverage.


So is there some good software for cockpit computers that integrates the
NACO charts in a reasonable way ? I can't see fooling with acrobat
reader every time I need to bring up an approach....

If you buy the NACO DVD and load it onto your computer it is fairly friendly, but I
wouldn't want to use it as primary. Printed charts (which look really good from a
good laser) for what you anticipate, then the electronic form as a backup for
contingincies.

As I've said before, if your flying "all over the place" IFR this won't work well;
neither does Jeppesen's JeppView, except in a two-person flight deck with certified
displays ($$$$$).