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#1
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Pre-buy after Annual
Newcomer to group and ownership here. Hope this isn't an FAQ, but Googling
the keywords brings up too many hits that don't address my question. I'm looking at a fairly typical first plane to buy ... 1960s Cherokee ... that appears to be just right. It has reasonable airframe time and low engine time. It was annualled two months ago. My specific question is ... Since the plane was just annualled, what should I look for in my (free, amatuer) pre-buy and ask the mechanic too look for in the professional inspection, that would indicate a "don't buy" decision, even if the annual is fresh. I'm thinking about things like interior wing corrosion that are airworthy this year and probably next, but would make the plane a poor long-term investment. Is this the right question to ask? Experienced, non-monetarily motivated answers appreciated. |
#2
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That is the right question to ask. What you are looking for are
deal-breakers, not routine maintenance items that have popped up in the two months since the annual. Corrosion, un-logged damage history, weak cylinders, cracked engine case, inop accessories, nonconformance with the type certificate, missing logs, are the types of deal-breakers that should be looked for in a pre-buy. "Douglas Olson" wrote in message ink.net... Newcomer to group and ownership here. Hope this isn't an FAQ, but Googling the keywords brings up too many hits that don't address my question. I'm looking at a fairly typical first plane to buy ... 1960s Cherokee ... that appears to be just right. It has reasonable airframe time and low engine time. It was annualled two months ago. My specific question is ... Since the plane was just annualled, what should I look for in my (free, amatuer) pre-buy and ask the mechanic too look for in the professional inspection, that would indicate a "don't buy" decision, even if the annual is fresh. I'm thinking about things like interior wing corrosion that are airworthy this year and probably next, but would make the plane a poor long-term investment. Is this the right question to ask? Experienced, non-monetarily motivated answers appreciated. |
#3
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Go to the FAA website and get the list of all the applicable ADs. If
you're going to be an owner, you may as well learn to read ADs. Then you can review the log books for compliance with the ADs. Get an A&P (or A&P/IA) that has not worked on the aircraft to do the pre-buy. Decide what will be 1) a deal breaker 2) negotiable. When I bought my cherokee I found an AD that hadn't been complied with (the previous owner was an A&P, too!). So the cost of complying was part of the purchase price. Have fuN! |
#4
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Doug,
Be careful about the overhaul. Low time is not always good. I looked at one airplane that had only 600SMOH but the overhaul had been done 25 years earlier. Not only is that bad in terms of low annual usuage, it's also way beyond Lycoming's recommendation of 12 years between overhauls. Most sellers and brokers I spoke to refused to consider anything but engine hours in terms of valuing the engine but calender time is significant. There are many aircraft for sale that are within the manufacturer's recommendations regarding hours but way beyond the 12 year recommendation. Have an experienced mechanic check the engine thoroughly. Get an oil sample to a lab and the screen and/or filter inspected. If possible, try to make sure the engine has at least 10 or 20 hours since the last oil change. Dave 68 7ECA Douglas Olson wrote: Newcomer to group and ownership here. Hope this isn't an FAQ, but Googling the keywords brings up too many hits that don't address my question. I'm looking at a fairly typical first plane to buy ... 1960s Cherokee ... that appears to be just right. It has reasonable airframe time and low engine time. It was annualled two months ago. My specific question is ... Since the plane was just annualled, what should I look for in my (free, amatuer) pre-buy and ask the mechanic too look for in the professional inspection, that would indicate a "don't buy" decision, even if the annual is fresh. I'm thinking about things like interior wing corrosion that are airworthy this year and probably next, but would make the plane a poor long-term investment. Is this the right question to ask? Experienced, non-monetarily motivated answers appreciated. |
#5
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Your mechanic should give it a compression test, look for AD's, cut the
oil filter, sample the oil, look for corrosion. You should be able to check the paint, upholstry, cleanliness, avionics and flight characteristics. As for old engines, even with low engine time, don't expect an old engine (over 12 years) to make it to TBO. Frequently flown is MUCH better. Frequently flown engines make it PAST TBO (frequent being over 100 hours a year, spread out through out the year). |
#6
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Well, you could do anything from nothing to another annual. How well do you
trust the shop that did the annual? If the plane is for sale now then you can be almost certain that the minimal amount of work was done at the annual. As always you have to weigh the amount to spend on the inspection against what will be found that the seller will be willing to repair. Mike MU-2 "Douglas Olson" wrote in message ink.net... Newcomer to group and ownership here. Hope this isn't an FAQ, but Googling the keywords brings up too many hits that don't address my question. I'm looking at a fairly typical first plane to buy ... 1960s Cherokee ... that appears to be just right. It has reasonable airframe time and low engine time. It was annualled two months ago. My specific question is ... Since the plane was just annualled, what should I look for in my (free, amatuer) pre-buy and ask the mechanic too look for in the professional inspection, that would indicate a "don't buy" decision, even if the annual is fresh. I'm thinking about things like interior wing corrosion that are airworthy this year and probably next, but would make the plane a poor long-term investment. Is this the right question to ask? Experienced, non-monetarily motivated answers appreciated. |
#7
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I disagree with what has been said here, except Mike. The pre-buy should be
another annual inspection, with great emphasis on known problems with the model of aircraft you want to buy. If it was annualled two months ago with the intention to buy, _assume_ that corners were cut. Remember, you _will_ be stuck with whatever you don't find in the pre-buy. "Douglas Olson" wrote in message ink.net... Newcomer to group and ownership here. Hope this isn't an FAQ, but Googling the keywords brings up too many hits that don't address my question. I'm looking at a fairly typical first plane to buy ... 1960s Cherokee ... that appears to be just right. It has reasonable airframe time and low engine time. It was annualled two months ago. My specific question is ... Since the plane was just annualled, what should I look for in my (free, amatuer) pre-buy and ask the mechanic too look for in the professional inspection, that would indicate a "don't buy" decision, even if the annual is fresh. I'm thinking about things like interior wing corrosion that are airworthy this year and probably next, but would make the plane a poor long-term investment. Is this the right question to ask? Experienced, non-monetarily motivated answers appreciated. |
#8
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Hi Doug. Great question. I'm a new owner and went through a similar
experience. We bought an Arrow that had literally come out of annual a couple of days before we showed up to take a look (and hopefully close the deal and fly home...which we wound up doing). I poked around for info. on the shop that had been doing the maintenance and received positive reports (thanks again Blanche). We also asked tons of questions to the owner and to the A&P that had been maintaining the plane. We went through AOPA for the title search and copies of past paperwork. Everything looked fine so we put down a deposit and headed to Denver. I spend a couple hours with the A&P reviewing the logs and asking more questions. I also had a chance to fly the plane as well. Reviewing the logs, we just kept finding more information that the plane had been well maintained. The A&P let me do whatever I wanted in terms of poking around the plane. The next day, one partner along with an instructor showed up. They had a look at the plane and we closed the deal then flew home. So, our pre-buy inspection was very limited. We could have (and many would say "should have") had a different shop do some form of pre-buy inspection. Given how the entire deal was progressing and our overall timeframe, we opted not to take the plane to another shop. A definite risk but one that we were comfortable with given all of the information we had. Specifically on your situation, check into whether or not Piper service bulletin 1006 has been performed. This is the one where they pull the tanks and check for corrosion on the wing spar caps. Many Piper owners advised me this is a "must have". If it has not been performed, I feel it is worth spending the money to do as part of a pre-buy inspection. Good luck with the purchase process. Be prepared to walk away if something doesn't feel right. We had to walk away from two deals before we found our Arrow. Not fun, time consuming, etc...but worth it in the end. -- Jack Allison PP-ASEL-IA Student Arrow N2104T "When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the Earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, and there you will always long to return" - Leonardo Da Vinci (Remove the obvious from address to reply via e-mail) |
#9
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Jack Allison wrote: Specifically on your situation, check into whether or not Piper service bulletin 1006 has been performed. This is the one where they pull the tanks and check for corrosion on the wing spar caps. Many Piper owners advised me this is a "must have". If it has not been performed, I feel it is worth spending the money to do as part of a pre-buy inspection. I'll second Jack's advice on this one. The only way to detect corrosion in that area is to perform SB #1006. That area is not normally inspected as part of an annual inspection. If it hasn't been performed, the long term condition of the plane is a question mark. It could be fine (as in most cases), or it could have some intergranular corrosion of the spar which will render your wings basically useless. Inspecting for corrosion is key to the long term investment prospects of an airplane. On a Cherokee group that I frequent, one owner is currently disassembling his recently bought plane and selling the pieces. His first annual uncovered massive corrosion under the front floorboards that would not have been economically feasable to repair. John Galban=====N4BQ (PA28-180) |
#10
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On 23-May-2005, " wrote: I'll second Jack's advice on this one. The only way to detect corrosion in that area is to perform SB #1006. That area is not normally inspected as part of an annual inspection. If it hasn't been performed, the long term condition of the plane is a question mark. It could be fine (as in most cases), or it could have some intergranular corrosion of the spar which will render your wings basically useless. Yes indeed, SB 1006 is a "must do" as far as I'm concerned. If I was considering purchase of an older PA-28 I would check the logs to verify compliance. If it hadn't yet been done, I would make successful compliance part of any purchase agreement. An A&P familiar with the SB, and that should be any A&P familiar with PA-28s, should be able to pull off the inspection in a few hours. Most of the work entails removal and replacement of the many screws holding the tanks in place, and that part can be done by anybody. BTW, when SB 106 is done the fuel lines behind the tanks should be routinely replaced, as should the fuel gauge senders if they are giving any problems. None of that is mentioned in the SB, but if the lines are more than 10 years old it would be dumb not to take advantage of having the tanks off as an opportunity to replace them. The lines themselves don't cost that much. How to deal with the inspection as part of a purchase deal? As a buyer, I would offer this: If the inspection shows either no corrosion or minor, easily corrected corrosion, I buy the plane at the agreed price and pay for the inspection (and fuel line replacements). If major corrosion is found (requiring more than, say, $200 to correct) then the deal is off and I owe nothing. -- -Elliott Drucker |
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