Teaching airworthiness

I was holding at a taxiway intersection for a flight school plane today.
The 152 hesitated and then started to turn right towards me. The tower
called up and said "# # X, that's a LEFT turn."

"We're having some trouble with our left brake so we're going to do a 360
around to the right."

Right, I thought, a 180 back to the FBO you mean. Nope they went all the
way around (270 actually) , down to the run up area, and went flying. I
know they can coast to a stop on our long class C runways and I'm sure the
instructor didn't want to cancel the lesson but.

They might not be able to stop on a short runway if they had to divert in an
emergency. The plane wasn't legal. The insurance probably was invalid
because the plane wasn't airworthy.

Is this what they are teaching students these days?

--
Roger Long

The plane wasn't legal.

Seems open to debate. Of course, you know how the NTSB report would
look....

They might not be able to stop on a short runway if they had to
divert in an emergency.

You can always come up with a scenario in a certain decision could
lead to catastrophe.

Is this what they are teaching students these days?

Not a big deal, IMO. Lots of instructors out there flying from the
right seat in Pipers without any brakes on their side, though they do
have the hand brake available.

If you land slow, as you ought to, then you shouldn't need a long
Class C runway to come to a stop.

Nothing wrong with flying a plane without brakes if that's the way it is
described on the type certificate. If it was certified with brakes and they
aren't working, it isn't in compliance with the certificate and isn't
airworthy.

--
Roger Long

If it was certified with brakes and they aren't working, it isn't in
compliance with the certificate and isn't airworthy.

The question is whether the airworthiness regulations *require*
brakes. If not, then you could placard the brakes inop.

Still, there's a slipperly slope between brakes not working, and
having degraded braking performance.

I was holding at a taxiway intersection for a flight school plane today.
The 152 hesitated and then started to turn right towards me. The tower
called up and said "# # X, that's a LEFT turn."

"We're having some trouble with our left brake so we're going to do a 360
around to the right."


Perhaps the instructor is fabricating a reason for his student's erroneous
maneuver? I know it would be a first and everything, but maybe?

"John Harlow" wrote in message
...

I was holding at a taxiway intersection for a flight school plane today.
The 152 hesitated and then started to turn right towards me. The tower
called up and said "# # X, that's a LEFT turn."

"We're having some trouble with our left brake so we're going to do a
360
around to the right."


Perhaps the instructor is fabricating a reason for his student's erroneous
maneuver? I know it would be a first and everything, but maybe?



That was exactly my thought. Either the student or the CFI goofed ( maybe it
was a very new student, and the CFI covered for him.)

Or not, but the only reason I can think that a brake problem would cause
that is if it (the brake)was stuck, since needing differential braking to
taxi a 152 is odd. A stuck brake pedal would make any sane CFI not risk a
take off. Stranger things have happened I suppose though.

"Dan Moos" wrote in message ...

Or not, but the only reason I can think that a brake problem would cause
that is if it (the brake)was stuck, since needing differential braking to
taxi a 152 is odd. A stuck brake pedal would make any sane CFI not risk a
take off. Stranger things have happened I suppose though.

I've had brakes on the 152 stick after screwing with the parking break
knob (which you are best advised not to monkey with). Perhaps the
instructor was just trying to clear the active taxiway and unjammed it
in the run-up block where he'd be out of the way.

Another failure (and I have this on the Navion because my toe brake
conversion uses Cessna rudder pedals), is that the hole in the tab where the brake
cylinder attaches wallows out and may eventually snap. At that point
the brake on that side gets to be intermittant as the thing engages and
disengages the end of the cylinder). Fortuantely, brakes in the Navion
are largely redundant and I woiuld have never put the toe brake conversion
in (it was already there). I've flown them fine with just the hand brake.

Absent understanding what he meant by "trouble with the left brake" you
can't really tell.

Yesterday, I went to AOO Altoona, Pa and ran into my friend, in the
plane that he loaned to me for my training. He was just getting there as was
I and he told me that he had no left brake. we check it out and found a
leak, naturally where we couldn't get to it easily. I left for Lost Acres
(8PN0) before him, and got there in time to see a new pilot in the area do a
go-round. He was way too fast and was going to touch down way to far down
the 1800' runway. Two of us landed, and then he came back, he slid off the
end of the runway, just barely, shopped a corn stock or two. We ran out and
pushed the plane back, and then I saw my friend with the plane with no left
brake entering the pattern. We told the "corn farmer" we would push his
plane aside and watch the landing since he wasn't able to use much braking
at all. He used just slightly more than half the runway, and taxied off to
park.

The poor guy is taking all kinds of comments after that one. The owner
told him he needed to get a 4 blade prop, so it could do a better job on the
corn. The other guy wasn't too bothered, he flew the plane a few hundred
miles today and got the parts he needed while he was out. The corn plane was
a 152, the brakeless one was a 150. Had to share....
Wayne


They might not be able to stop on a short runway if they had to divert in
an
emergency. The plane wasn't legal. The insurance probably was invalid
because the plane wasn't airworthy.

"Roger Long" om wrote in message ...
I was holding at a taxiway intersection for a flight school plane today.
The 152 hesitated and then started to turn right towards me. The tower
called up and said "# # X, that's a LEFT turn."

"We're having some trouble with our left brake so we're going to do a 360
around to the right."

Since when does a C152 need to be steered with the brakes?

If they meant, the left brake was stuck and not releasing, heh,
well, I've seen a plane lose a tire on roll-out because the
brake wouldn't release. The pilot was on-the-ball and the
plane stayed on the runway, but it sounds a bit much to
expect of a student pilot.

Cheers,
Sydney

On 17 Sep 2003, Snowbird wrote:


Since when does a C152 need to be steered with the brakes?

I keep reading this and wonder how many people here actually fly
these things. It's common at small airports to be faced with a turn that
can't be made with nosewheel steering alone, and you need to use
differential braking. It's not always poor planning, sometimes it just
works out that way.

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