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Inadvertant PTT - Where do you put your hand?



 
 
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  #1  
Old April 16th 11, 07:35 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
ContestID67[_2_]
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Posts: 202
Default Inadvertant PTT - Where do you put your hand?

I saw this item in another thread and found it interesting.

Do you actually tow with your hand on the release? What happens at
100 feet when you hit a good bump and accidentally release?


I have had exactly one PTT (premature termination of tow) at about 3
feet AGL when I had my hand on the release handle and hit a bump.
This was in a 1-34 and the release was very sensitive.

My other issue is getting to the release handle on my glass glider
where the handle is about at the limit of my fingertips. As I have a
CG hook I am concerned about ballooning on tow (happened to a friend
of mine and it didn't end well). So I worry that during a high-g
event I might not be able to reach the release handle.

What I now use is a LOOSE lanyard between the release and my wrist.
LOOSE so that I don't PTT during a bump. Attached to my wrist so that
no matter what I will be able to pull the release. BTW: I don't use
the lanyard for a normal tow release.

Finally - others keep their hand on the airbrake handle to prevent the
brakes opening on tow. Generally, you can have your hand on the
release *OR* the brakes but not both (unless you fly with your
knees). With my lanyard approach I can effectively have my hand on
both handles. You can see a picture of my simple lanyard at
http://aviation.derosaweb.net/lanyard.

My $0.02. Your thoughts?

Thanks, John DeRosa
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  #2  
Old April 16th 11, 09:11 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Mike[_28_]
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Posts: 47
Default Inadvertant PTT - Where do you put your hand?

I had a PTT at 250' +/- after getting really slammed by a thermal
while I had a device similar to yours in my hand (rather than wrapped
around it). I didn't have enough slack in it and when I flinched, I
released. It was an interesting few seconds while I tried to figure
out what just happened but it was an uneventful 180 to landing. I've
since lengthened the lanyard and leave it lying across my thigh with
my wrist on top of it.

Mike

  #3  
Old April 16th 11, 10:18 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
ContestID67[_2_]
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Posts: 202
Default Inadvertant PTT - Where do you put your hand?

On Apr 16, 3:11*pm, Mike wrote:
I had a PTT at 250' +/- after getting really slammed by a thermal
while I had a device similar to yours in my hand (rather than wrapped
around it). I didn't have enough slack in it and when I flinched, I
released. It was an interesting few seconds while I tried to figure
out what just happened but it was an uneventful 180 to landing. I've
since lengthened the lanyard and leave it lying across my thigh with
my wrist on top of it.

Mike


Yea, I hear you. Slack is the key - not too much, not too little. I
had that happen in the club's 1-34R. Your plan is to reach for the
lanyard when you need it.

Here is my counter: I watched as a friend (CG hook like mine)
ballooned up and came back down onto the glider's nose. Not a pretty
sight and he was injured. He stated later that he was trying to reach
for the release but couldn't due to being thrown around. In your case
the positive and negative G's may well throw your arm one way and the
lanyard in the other. With milliseconds to react you will have no
chance to grab it.

So my approach is to attach the lanyard to me so that all I need to do
is 1) scream and 2) yank.

Again, my $0.02 and thanks for your comments.
  #4  
Old April 16th 11, 11:40 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Steve Koerner
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Posts: 430
Default Inadvertant PTT - Where do you put your hand?

As the OP points out, there are two separate objectives. One is to be
able to release quickly while the other is to not release
accidently.

Attaching the release cable to your hand has the potential to slightly
quicken the release action but in doing so, you are greatly
compromising the second goal. Since we're offering 2 cent advise
here, I'll advise against doing that. If you hit a big bump or
scratch your nose or open the vent or tighten your straps, bingo! your
headed down. This seems like a bad idea.

I would also point out that adding an extra link to the tow release is
essentially changing the design of your glider. Many pilots are not
qualified to make such a design change. A strap may seem like a
simple device, but there are an awful lot of ways for that added strap
to not work when it's needed. This is made worse by the fact that it
will be rarely tested.

I think the best bet is to simply position your hand within a couple
inches of the release. As you sit in the cockpit waiting for tow,
practice making the quick grab while you are mentally preparing
yourself in terms of the particular circumstances that will drive that
action. I don't beleive there is any reason to worry about grabbing
the tow release and the dive brake at the same time, the tow release
is always first.

GW
  #5  
Old April 17th 11, 12:08 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Dan Marotta
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Posts: 4,486
Default Inadvertant PTT - Where do you put your hand?

On Apr 16, 4:40*pm, Steve Koerner wrote:
As the OP points out, there are two separate objectives. *One is to be
able to release quickly while the other is to not release
accidently.

Attaching the release cable to your hand has the potential to slightly
quicken the release action but in doing so, you are greatly
compromising the second goal. *Since we're offering 2 cent advise
here, I'll advise against doing that. *If you hit a big bump or
scratch your nose or open the vent or tighten your straps, bingo! your
headed down. *This seems like a bad idea.

I would also point out that adding an extra link to the tow release is
essentially changing the design of your glider. *Many pilots are not
qualified to make such a design change. *A strap may seem like a
simple device, but there are an awful lot of ways for that added strap
to not work when it's needed. *This is made worse by the fact that it
will be rarely tested.

I think the best bet is to simply position your hand within a couple
inches of the release. * As you sit in the cockpit waiting for tow,
practice making the quick grab while you are mentally preparing
yourself in terms of the particular circumstances that will drive that
action. * I don't beleive there is any reason to worry about grabbing
the tow release and the dive brake at the same time, the tow release
is always first.

GW


Well, I think it's a great idea! My arms are long enough and the
release is just above the dive brake handle that I don't feel that I
need such a device. My problem is with the heel operated brakes. I
start the tow with my knees a lot closer than I'd like and, after
gaining safe (to me) height, I slide the pedals away. On downwind or
final (if an early release), I pull the pedals back up. It may sound
like a lot but it literally takes less than a second to accomplish.

Again - I like your idea of the wrist to release cord. I'd only
caution that you not tie it too tightly to you in case you need to get
out quickly.
  #6  
Old April 17th 11, 12:24 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Ken Latam
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Posts: 20
Default Inadvertant PTT - Where do you put your hand?

A lanyard works well. I have used them before. With my old L-Spatz 55 winch
launching was very brisk so I used a lanyard so that I could reach the
release. Mine was a single line with a loop slipped over the knob as in
the pic, but the free end was slipped up under the lap belt so as not to
entangle in anything.

Ken

  #7  
Old April 17th 11, 01:09 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
[email protected]
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Posts: 194
Default Inadvertant PTT - Where do you put your hand?

On Apr 16, 2:35*pm, ContestID67 wrote:
I saw this item in another thread and found it interesting.

Do you actually tow with your hand on the release? *What happens at
100 feet when you hit a good bump and accidentally release?


I have had exactly one PTT (premature termination of tow) at about 3
feet AGL when I had my hand on the release handle and hit a bump.
This was in a 1-34 and the release was very sensitive.

My other issue is getting to the release handle on my glass glider
where the handle is about at the limit of my fingertips. *As I have a
CG hook I am concerned about ballooning on tow (happened to a friend
of mine and it didn't end well). *So I worry that during a high-g
event I might not be able to reach the release handle.

What I now use is a LOOSE lanyard between the release and my wrist.
LOOSE so that I don't PTT during a bump. *Attached to my wrist so that
no matter what I will be able to pull the release. *BTW: I don't use
the lanyard for a normal tow release.

Finally - others keep their hand on the airbrake handle to prevent the
brakes opening on tow. *Generally, you can have your hand on the
release *OR* the brakes but not both (unless you fly with your
knees). *With my lanyard approach I can effectively have my hand on
both handles. * *You can see a picture of my simple lanyard athttp://aviation.derosaweb.net/lanyard.

My $0.02. *Your thoughts?

Thanks, John DeRosa


I fly a 1-34 quite a bit....I know what you mean about the release
being "sensitive".....I think there is actually a spec for the min
pull pressure....or maybe its the min back pressure measured at the to
hook.....I remember that we were worried about this and installed a
new spring...

As for your glass glider......How about moving the seat forward and
moving the rudder pedals forward, so you can reach the release?

I never like the idea of adding home brew accessories...

Cookie

  #8  
Old April 17th 11, 01:59 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
ContestID67[_2_]
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Posts: 202
Default Inadvertant PTT - Where do you put your hand?

On Apr 16, 5:40*pm, Steve Koerner wrote:
As the OP points out, there are two separate objectives. *One is to be
able to release quickly while the other is to not release
accidently.

Attaching the release cable to your hand has the potential to slightly
quicken the release action but in doing so, you are greatly
compromising the second goal. *Since we're offering 2 cent advise
her
GW


Thanks for your thoughts.

A PTT has the potential of...basically landing out. That comes with
all the attendent issues of dinging/breaking the glider but rarely
harming the pilot. I suppose this depends on a number of factors like
PTT height above the ground, the runway's over-run area, fences,
crops, etc, etc.

The other side of this coin is my fear (maybe unfounded) of the
dreaded "balloon". In that case I am almost guaranteed to be
physically the worse for wear after the event...and maybe a lot
worse. Because I witnessed one, I am hyper-sensitized to it.

This is all risk analysis. What is the likelihood of the event I am
protecting against (balloon)? Is it so remote that the concern is
unfounded and the "cure is worse than the disease"?

Thanks again for everyone's thoughts.
  #9  
Old April 17th 11, 03:43 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Tony[_5_]
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Posts: 1,960
Default Inadvertant PTT - Where do you put your hand?

The Cherokee's airbrakes are sprung shut and the handle lays flat on
the floor when they are closed. pull to operate. so my left hand is
usually resting on my left leg within sprung to reach for the tow
release which is under the left side of the panel. haven't had a
premature tow release yet.
  #10  
Old April 17th 11, 09:29 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Nigel Pocock[_2_]
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Posts: 53
Default Inadvertant PTT - Where do you put your hand?


As for your glass glider......How about moving the seat forward and
moving the rudder pedals forward, so you can reach the release?


Dosnt work for me. If i did that the stick would be jammed fully forward
by my crutch. As it is I have problems with some gliders getting full back
stick. Long body and short legs.

 




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