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#131
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Co-pilot gets sick, stewardess helps land airplane
On Jun 22, 11:06*am, Mxsmanic wrote:
You would not get these specifics from flying a Cessna 172, even in real life (nor would you get them from flying only the C172 in the sim). But you never been in a real plane. How do you know this????????? |
#132
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Co-pilot gets sick, stewardess helps land airplane
As far as that goes, the FAA has no control over the certification or
inspection of military aircraft, in any way. They just have to put up with the fact that the military does what they want with the aircraft they own. With one clarification the above matches what I have learned. The clarification: when military aircraft fly in U.S. airspace, except for military emergencies related to national defense, they are indeed subject to FAA flight rules. E.g. hemispheric flight altitude rules, VFR rules, airspace requirements, and so on. Flight safety would be highly compromised if there was not a single final authority. Indeed, they follow FAA requirements to how they use the airspace. Note in my comments, I was carefull to say that the FAA does not have any control over _certification or inspection_ of military aircraft. I guess when I said "the military does what they want with the aircraft they own" that could be interpreted to how and where they fly them in FAA airspace, but I was intending to speak to the physical aircraft, not how they are flown. -- Jim in NC |
#133
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Co-pilot gets sick, stewardess helps land airplane
On Jun 23, 5:21*am, Mxsmanic wrote:
In the future, I suspect that pilots will be trained without any time in a real aircraft, mainly to save money. Just when you think he couldn't get any sillier he does. |
#134
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Co-pilot gets sick, stewardess helps land airplane
On Tue, 22 Jun 2010 19:26:18 +0200, Mxsmanic
wrote: Hatunen writes: Nor can it realistically simulate the feeling of aiming the plane at a real runway and trying your best to grease the wheels on, but instead coming in a bit high and trying to force the plne down to the runway without bouncing too much. Actually it does that rather well. Your computer chair bounces? As us8ual you deleted an important part of my post.... "In some fairness, it should be said that some computer simulators perform pretty well, but it also has to be said that a simulation on a PC can never be very realistic. It is far different sitting in a real cockpit with a real yoke and real pedals operating real ailerons, elevators and rudders." .... which makes it clear I am talking about PC simulators. A PC can never simulate that feeling in the pit of your stomache when teh plane hits a downdraft and loses 2000 feet just like that. Like many private pilots, you think of flight in terms of physical sensations. This is only one of many possible interpretations, however. You've never flown a plane. I have. The physical sensations can be important when they occur, as they can distract from clear thinking. A stall simulated on a PC can not ever accurately convey the, um, thrill, of a full stall (especially your first full stall as a student pilot) as you keep pulling back on the yoke/joystick pointing the noise higher and higher as the stall warning screams and then, WHAM!, the nose of the plane is pointed downward, seemingly straight down at the ground, gaining speed rapidly. The first time I did tht for my isntructor it scared the crap out of me. (The plane itself is important here; our old Piper J-3 would snap a stall break like you wouldn't believe, real Six Flags sort of thing, while the Cessnas are a bit more forgiving, and some light planes are designed to not break in a stall at all but to simply lsoe altitude.) A PC can not give you the feel of a plane as it is slowed to stall speen with the stall warning blaring and the plane shuddering a little. Andalthough they no longer teach it, a PC cannot simulate the quiet but scary feeling f being in a spin and the slight panic as you try to bring it out of that spin. Since they no longer teach it, doesn't that mean that there are no longer any Real Pilots? How can you know anything about a spin without spinning in a real aircraft? And the PC can not simulate the visual context of a real plane where the instruments are spread out; you'd have to keep your nose pretty close to the monitor to simulate this. Actually, the PC can do this, with the right add-ons. As to Mixie's apparent idea that somehow his PC is a good emulation of a big-time simulator, where the cockpit layout is very close to the appearance of the craft's real cockpit and where the hydraulics on the simulator can create most of the bumps and jerks of real flight, that is downright ludicrous. I guess you haven't been flying or simming much recently. The cockpit layout of the sim is realistic enough that you may not recognize it as a sim at first glance. It's not difficult to display photo-realistic visuals, after all. -- ************* DAVE HATUNEN ) ************* * Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow * * My typos & mispellings are intentional copyright traps * |
#135
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Co-pilot gets sick, stewardess helps land airplane
On Tue, 22 Jun 2010 19:26:18 +0200, Mxsmanic
wrote: Hatunen writes: Andalthough they no longer teach it, a PC cannot simulate the quiet but scary feeling f being in a spin and the slight panic as you try to bring it out of that spin. Since they no longer teach it, doesn't that mean that there are no longer any Real Pilots? How can you know anything about a spin without spinning in a real aircraft? Well, my instructor, who insisted on teaching spins to me although no longer required for certification said there weren't any more real pilots. I guess you don't have to know how to recover from a spin if you don't spin. And the PC can not simulate the visual context of a real plane where the instruments are spread out; you'd have to keep your nose pretty close to the monitor to simulate this. Actually, the PC can do this, with the right add-ons. Like an add-on dual monitor? I fail to see how a PC can realistically give the sensation of an instrument panel over two feet across. As to Mixie's apparent idea that somehow his PC is a good emulation of a big-time simulator, where the cockpit layout is very close to the appearance of the craft's real cockpit and where the hydraulics on the simulator can create most of the bumps and jerks of real flight, that is downright ludicrous. I guess you haven't been flying or simming much recently. The cockpit layout of the sim is realistic enough that you may not recognize it as a sim at first glance. It's not difficult to display photo-realistic visuals, after all. Unless your computer chair can bounce up and down and lean left and right, it's not the same. -- ************* DAVE HATUNEN ) ************* * Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow * * My typos & mispellings are intentional copyright traps * |
#136
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Co-pilot gets sick, stewardess helps land airplane
Mxsmanic wrote:
writes: No, it is not unless the simulator is so realistic it is impossible to tell the difference between the simulation and reality and such simulators do not exist. The simulator need only provide more information than no information, which every simulator does. The simulator provides information specific to an aircraft that real-world experience in a different aircraft does not. Delusional babble. Flying a real airplane requires a broad set of skills and knowledge which is why in the real world the individual skills are taught in varied environments best suited for teaching the task at hand, i.e. the cockpit of a C172, a desk, a light twin, a 747 simulator, a real 747, to name just a few. There is knowledge (and sometimes skill) specific to individual aircraft that must be acquired before that aircraft can be successfully flown. True, and in most cases, if the aircraft are anywhere near similar, a reading of the aircraft manual will suffice for that. And I've actually done that, have you? The specifics of a 747 are not learned by someone flying a C172. True, but no one but you and your tunnel vision of what is required to fly an airplane is saying that. -- Jim Pennino Remove .spam.sux to reply. |
#137
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Co-pilot gets sick, stewardess helps land airplane
In rec.aviation.piloting Mxsmanic wrote:
Hatunen writes: But you're still required to actually fly a plane to get certified. That is a regulatory rather than a practical restriction. And you only need a very small number of hours of flight in a real aircraft. In the future, I suspect that pilots will be trained without any time in a real aircraft, mainly to save money. Delusional. Tell us: does the simulator simulate a stall? Yes. Sure it does, including the feeling of falling when the stall breaks and the increased G load as you pull out. -- Jim Pennino Remove .spam.sux to reply. |
#138
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Co-pilot gets sick, stewardess helps land airplane
In rec.aviation.piloting Mxsmanic wrote:
Hatunen writes: Nor can it realistically simulate the feeling of aiming the plane at a real runway and trying your best to grease the wheels on, but instead coming in a bit high and trying to force the plne down to the runway without bouncing too much. Actually it does that rather well. Delusional. The view looks like a flat screen and there is no peripherial view. A PC can never simulate that feeling in the pit of your stomache when teh plane hits a downdraft and loses 2000 feet just like that. Like many private pilots, you think of flight in terms of physical sensations. The physical sensations of a downdraft are real in real airplanes and you have to learn to deal with them to fly real airplanes. A PC can not give you the feel of a plane as it is slowed to stall speen with the stall warning blaring and the plane shuddering a little. Andalthough they no longer teach it, a PC cannot simulate the quiet but scary feeling f being in a spin and the slight panic as you try to bring it out of that spin. Since they no longer teach it, doesn't that mean that there are no longer any Real Pilots? How can you know anything about a spin without spinning in a real aircraft? Wrong. Yes spins are still taught, they are just not a requirement for private. And the PC can not simulate the visual context of a real plane where the instruments are spread out; you'd have to keep your nose pretty close to the monitor to simulate this. Actually, the PC can do this, with the right add-ons. Sure if you have a 360 degree wrap around display. Do you? As to Mixie's apparent idea that somehow his PC is a good emulation of a big-time simulator, where the cockpit layout is very close to the appearance of the craft's real cockpit and where the hydraulics on the simulator can create most of the bumps and jerks of real flight, that is downright ludicrous. I guess you haven't been flying or simming much recently. The cockpit layout of the sim is realistic enough that you may not recognize it as a sim at first glance. It's not difficult to display photo-realistic visuals, after all. Since it is all on a small (compared to even a C150 panel) 2 dimensional flat screen, only someone delusional could not immediately tell it is a display. -- Jim Pennino Remove .spam.sux to reply. |
#139
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Co-pilot gets sick, stewardess helps land airplane
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#140
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Co-pilot gets sick, stewardess helps land airplane
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