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#51
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Co-pilot gets sick, stewardess helps land airplane
brian whatcott writes:
Let's see: would I know to turn on the two hydraulics control breakers, the FMS1 and the FMS 2 breakers, spin up the APU , turn on the pneumatic manifold to spin up one main engine, select radio frequencies via the FMS CDU, initialize the INS - and on and on..... Yes. Of course, you wouldn't need to know all these things just to land the airplane, particularly with help from an instructor on the ground. But you'd need them to fly the aircraft competently, and you wouldn't learn them in a Cessna. In any case, when it comes to landing the 747, a Cessna pilot wouldn't really have any clear advantage over a non-pilot--the few things he might know how to do would either be useless on a 747 or would be too trivial to help without assistance. |
#52
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Co-pilot gets sick, stewardess helps land airplane
On Sun, 20 Jun 2010 11:45:01 +0200, Mxsmanic
wrote: Wingnut writes: So, you're sayign that flight experience is irrelevant to flying an aircraft? That depends on the experience, and the aircraft. Flight experience in a Cessna 152 will not necessarily be of any use in flying a 747 or a SR-71. The lady in question has a commercial license, which implies more experience than noodling around in a 152. At a minimum the lady would know pulling back on the yoke raises the nose and and pushing forward makes for nose down. She would also know that turning the yoke will not make the plane turn unless the pedals are also used. And, of course, she will know most of the lingo and will know where to look when told to watch the air speed or the artificial horizon. She will presumably know the difference between mag north and true north and will have a pretty good idea of which direction runway 120 points. She would know the purpose of the flaps, the VOR, and so on. She will know how to read an air chart. The basic principles are the same, but nothing more. Just as experience in driving a Yugo doesn't necessarily help in driving a Formula 1 car. It will help in driving the Formula 1 from the garage to the street. The notion that experience at something improves one's ability at that something is a "myth"? Since when? A person with experience in a Cessna 152 still has none in a 747, and so he will not necessarily be any more useful in a 747 cockpit than a non-pilot would. Nonsense. While teh cockpit of a 747 is pretty complex, it still contains the basic instruments of a twin-engine Beech. Pilots of small private aircraft who believe that they could just slip into a 747 cockpit and fly it are just as naive as non-pilots who believe the same thing. I don't recall anyone here saying they could. To fly an airliner, you need experience and/or training in flying airliners, not Piper Cubs. Well, duh. That's not the question at hand. I don't think anyone here has claimed that. Though the less someone knows about operating an aircraft, the poorer their odds. Yes. I've heard many people claim this, however, and it only shows that they are uninformed. You've heard many people claim this? Who? And especially, who here in this thread? As usual you're making up straw men. A person with no flying experience who is compelled to take the controls of a small aircraft without any automation runs a high risk of crashing. In a large transport-category aircraft with heavy automation, though, he has a much better chance of being able to land safely, if someone can give him instructions over the radio. (Without instructions, his chances are just as poor as they would be in the small aircraft.) But this is a case where it would be especially helpful if the person taking over the controls had, say, a commercial license, for the reasons I cited above. Not the scenario here. This person was a commercial pilot, not just someone who had operated their own personal plane. The same principle still applies to a certain extent, unless the commercial pilot experience was in the same type of aircraft. If the FA had a CPL but had not flown for 20 years, she may never have flown an airliner. See the reasons I cited above. Among other things, an average passenger sitting in the left or right seat would probably go into shock at the mere sight of an airline instrument panel. Some one with a commercial license, would immediately look for the instruments familiar to him or her. -- ************* DAVE HATUNEN ) ************* * Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow * * My typos & mispellings are intentional copyright traps * |
#53
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Co-pilot gets sick, stewardess helps land airplane
On Sun, 20 Jun 2010 11:46:12 +0200, Mxsmanic
wrote: Wingnut writes: Who said anything about a Cessna? The original post said she had experience as a *commercial* pilot. That tends to mean something a bit bigger than just a personal aircraft. You can fly commercially in a Cessna. And unless you also have a job as a commercial pilot in addition to the CPL, you might not ever fly anything much larger than that. Yep. Might not. Or might have. -- ************* DAVE HATUNEN ) ************* * Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow * * My typos & mispellings are intentional copyright traps * |
#54
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Co-pilot gets sick, stewardess helps land airplane
Mxsmanic wrote:
brian whatcott writes: Let's see: would I know to turn on the two hydraulics control breakers, the FMS1 and the FMS 2 breakers, spin up the APU , turn on the pneumatic manifold to spin up one main engine, select radio frequencies via the FMS CDU, initialize the INS - and on and on..... Yes. Of course, you wouldn't need to know all these things just to land the airplane, particularly with help from an instructor on the ground. But you'd need them to fly the aircraft competently, and you wouldn't learn them in a Cessna. In any case, when it comes to landing the 747, a Cessna pilot wouldn't really have any clear advantage over a non-pilot--the few things he might know how to do would either be useless on a 747 or would be too trivial to help without assistance. You mean like what the controls do and how to make a turn, what a stall is, pulling the nose up decreases airspeed, putting the nose down decreases airspeed, little things like that? -- Jim Pennino Remove .spam.sux to reply. |
#55
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Co-pilot gets sick, stewardess helps land airplane
Mxsmanic wrote:
writes: Most average people would be scared ****less in such a situation and likely panic at the first bump. Actually, most people behave themselves quite well in emergencies. No panic, and only moderate fear. Delusional. I've heard people shrieking in terror when a steeper than normal for an airliner bank was made. I have not. Since you admit you don't like to fly, that is hardly surprising. True, but irrelevant, as pilots are used to them but non-pilots aren't and for them it is scary. The sensations in a typical jet transport are exceedingly tame, and do no scare passengers. This is by design. True when compared to most GA aircraft, but again irrelevant as it doesn't take much to spook the average non-pilot. -- Jim Pennino Remove .spam.sux to reply. |
#56
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Co-pilot gets sick, stewardess helps land airplane
Mxsmanic wrote:
writes: Yeah, anybody can read a check list, but when it comes to the rubber meeting the road, I just don't see a non pilot doing the simple tasks inside a cockpit of a 767. It's a visual sensory overload for a passenger when I had the Sundowner, and I know it would be the same for me trying to find things in a 767. Some people are more capable than others. Yeah, sure, there is likely a handfull of people out of the roughly 7 billion non-pilots on the planet that would not panic if the job of landing an airliner were thrust upon them. The odds of winning the lottery here are lower than the odds you would find one at random. -- Jim Pennino Remove .spam.sux to reply. |
#57
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Co-pilot gets sick, stewardess helps land airplane
On Jun 20, 7:19*pm, Mxsmanic wrote:
*In any case, when it comes to landing the 747, a Cessna pilot wouldn't really have any clear advantage over a non-pilot- WRONG. DEADLY WRONG if you really believe this. OH, I guess it isn't deadly wrong since you have no clue what it takes to fly a real plane. |
#58
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Co-pilot gets sick, stewardess helps land airplane
On Jun 20, 7:30*pm, Hatunen wrote:
See the reasons I cited above. Among other things, an average passenger sitting in the left or right seat would probably go into shock at the mere sight of an airline instrument panel. Some one with a commercial license, would immediately look for the instruments familiar to him or her. Not sure if you realize MX is a MSFS simmer, has never flown a real plane, not a CGI, and no real world experience inside a real plane. He just misrepresents himself as a pilot. He doesn't understand the real world as you describe above. Your last sentence is the key. Somebody with piloting experience would know what the altimeter would look like in the myriad of instruments presented in front of him or a DG for directional awareness. A non pilot may not be so quick to identify it. Put in glass cockpit in the mix, and you would have me lost trying to interpret the information being presented. I simply can't imagine a non pilot trying to figure it out especially with altitude and such. |
#59
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Co-pilot gets sick, stewardess helps land airplane
Hatunen wrote:
Mxsmanic wrote: Wingnut writes: So, you're sayign that flight experience is irrelevant to flying an aircraft? That depends on the experience, and the aircraft. Flight experience in a Cessna 152 will not necessarily be of any use in flying a 747 or a SR-71. The lady in question has a commercial license, which implies more experience than noodling around in a 152. Commercial airplane rating requires at least 10 hours training in retracts, controllable pitch prop, or be turbine powered. So it can't be completed using just a Cessna 150/152. You need some training in something like a Cessna 172RG or R182, at a minimum. |
#60
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Co-pilot gets sick, stewardess helps land airplane
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