Flight review required?

So, doesn't this work:

Commercial includes light sport.

Train to proficiency with a CFI-G in a 2-33. Pass a proficiency check with a different CFI-G - this doesn't count as a flight review, but the commercial pilot is now cleared to utilize his/her light sport privileges in a glider as soon as she/he completes a Flight review with any CFI-G.

This probably requires five or six more dual flights than otherwise required to solo, but that's not the worst thing in the world. It's still glider flight training which is eminently more useful in the case I shared than getting power current.

At a place doing a couple weekend add-on, some of this could likely even count as the recommendation flights for the commercial checkride and not really be much of a burden at all.

If the SSA can't work this out with the FAA, will 2-33's suddenly become more valuable?

Break, break.

Did you see the AOPA story about the 16 year old who soloed a single engine airplane a few minutes after midnight the day he turned 16? Later that day he soloed a twin engined airplane and a glider. All with just a student pilot certificate. However, a lapsed pilot can't solo a glider in an add-on program.

Terry - I absolutely think that's the interim path until the FAA goes through rule making to fix the core issue of rated pilots not being able to solo a glider without a flight review in an aircraft for which they hold a rating.

1 - Train to proficiency IAW the Light Sport Glider PTS in the 2-33 and get an instructor recommendation to take the proficiency check. Get the appropriate endorsement in the logbook and sign off on form 8710-11.

2 - Successfully pass a proficiency check in the 2-33 with another instructor to the Light Sport Glider PTS and get the appropriate logbook endorsement and signature on the 8710-11.

3 - The instructor that completed the Proficiency Check sends the 8710-11 to Oklahoma City.

4 - Complete a flight review in the 2-33 with any instructor.

5 - At this point, one should be able to get a solo endorsement in any glider that they are training in as the Flight Review requirement has been met and they are training for an additional category to add to their Private, Commercial, or ATP certiciate.

It would be interesting to hear a DPEs thoughts on this.

2 - Successfully pass a proficiency check in the 2-33 with another instructor to the Light Sport Glider PTS and get the appropriate logbook endorsement and signature on the 8710-11.


Who is the PIC during the Sport Pilot proficiency check? Is it the applicant or the check instructor?

If the applicant is the PIC, he will need a Flight Review before doing this, because according to the Beard interpretation, he needs a Flight Review before acting as PIC.

I too would like to hear from a DPE or FSDO on this.

BTW no one has mentioned the FAA Wings Program in lieu of a Flight Review. I think that is the cryptic "For questions, and to discuss possible approaches for dealing with this, please contact SSA Chairman Ken Sorenson at " on the SSA page.

So I would also like to hear someone comment here about the FAA Wings Program path to clear the air on this.

Burt????? Please chime in Sir!

FAA Wings program for a flight review qualification still requires flying with a CFI.

Agreed that during the proficiency check the CFIG would act as PIC.

Here is my reference as to why I think this is legal

https://www.faa.gov/licenses_certifi...ency_check.pdf

Specifically -





III. RECORD OF PILOT TIME.
There is no minimum pilot experience required by for the proficiency check. Enter only the pilot time that is acquired in an N-numbered aircraft. DO NOT ENTER TIME THAT IS ACQUIRED IN AN ULTRA LIGHT VEHICLE. If decimal points are used, be sure they are legible. You should fill in the blocks that apply and ignore the blocks that do not.

On Saturday, April 23, 2016 at 11:34:24 PM UTC-5, Bill T wrote:
FAA Wings program for a flight review qualification still requires flying with a CFI.

Found this in the FAA Wings Program:

"What is the WINGS Profile?

The selections you choose on your WINGS Profile page are used to assist in searching for Accredited Activities that interest you. The activities we display on FAASafety.gov will match these selections. Your selections do not have to match your current certificates and ratings. You should select any certificate and/or rating in which you are interested in pursuing training. For instance, if you are an Airplane Private Pilot who is interested in pursuing a Glider or Commercial certification, you should choose that selection to view activities available on our system pertaining to those certifications."

Here is the website: https://www.faasafety.gov/OnlineHelp/faq.aspx

So, it would appear that you can do this without the Sport Pilot gymnastics.. Just complete a Phase of the Wings program using the Glider Category for the Flight Portion of that Wings Phase, and in lieu of a Flight Review, and you should be set to solo the Glider as PIC. Just check the Glider Category in you Wings Profile and let the system generate the Wings Checklist of training you need to do, and then complete the program with the CFI-G and submit the completed Wings paperwork. There is also a ground portion that needs to be credited, but many of us attend those FAA-Sponsored Safety Seminars anyway which will count. You did remember to get credit for those, right?

The Flight Review credit is only awarded in the aircraft you are rated. An airplane rated pilot, completing wings courses for gliders will not apply to the flight review needed to solo the glider. He/she needs to complete the Wings courses, 3 ground and 3 flight modules to Practical Test Standards level of proficiency for flight review credit.

BillT
FAASTEAM Lead

BTT

PA

On Wednesday, April 27, 2016 at 7:52:26 PM UTC-7, Bill T wrote:
The Flight Review credit is only awarded in the aircraft you are rated. An airplane rated pilot, completing wings courses for gliders will not apply to the flight review needed to solo the glider. He/she needs to complete the Wings courses, 3 ground and 3 flight modules to Practical Test Standards level of proficiency for flight review credit.

BillT
FAASTEAM Lead

This is fascinating stuff. As I read the WINGS documentation from the FAA, and 14 CFR 61.56(e) the WINGS phases are not a way to accomplish the Flight Review but rather are an alternative to the Flight Review. If the WINGS path is chosen the "Flight Review" requirements do not apply. On the other hand I am likely to be wrong about anything I interpret from the FAR's.

On Wednesday, April 27, 2016 at 7:52:26 PM UTC-7, Bill T wrote:
The Flight Review credit is only awarded in the aircraft you are rated. An airplane rated pilot, completing wings courses for gliders will not apply to the flight review needed to solo the glider. He/she needs to complete the Wings courses, 3 ground and 3 flight modules to Practical Test Standards level of proficiency for flight review credit.

BillT
FAASTEAM Lead

Thank you BillT. This issue has caused us, and our add-on students, a lot of confusion. I confess I am still confused about it. 14 CFR 61.56(e) states:

(e) A person who has, within the period specified in paragraph (c) of this section, satisfactorily accomplished one or more phases of an FAA-sponsored pilot proficiency award program need not accomplish the flight review required by this section.

I interpret this to say that a WINGS phase, for whatever category of aircraft, eliminates the Flight Review requirement and rather is not a way to accomplish the Flight Review. They would not be held to completing what is described by the FAA as a Flight Review. Is this not correct?

We have out-of-currency SEL pilots who wish to solo in gliders but have not a practical way to complete an SEL Flight Review. We, and they, are looking for a reasonable way to go forward with their glider training.

Thank you.