Registration Airplane or Motorglider

On Sat, 13 Nov 2004 12:38:29 GMT, Russ Haggerty
wrote in ::

I am building and ready to register a Europa experimental. I have
both regular and glider wings. I am soliciting opinions as to any
problems or restrictions to flight if I register it as a motorglider.
I see advantages as to no medical requirements for glider license, and
also 10 flight requirement for license and a motor launch endorsement
from a CFIG.

Any opinions or comments welcome

Thanks........

Congratulations on your completion of a worthy project.

In addition to the benefit of self-certifying your medical condition
for operation of your Europa, registering it as a motorglider will
give you the right-of-way over all but balloons, aircraft in distress,
and perhaps aircraft towing or refueling other aircraft. I am unable
to think of a single negative aspect to choosing to register your
Europa as a glider.

I've crossposted to rec.aviation.soaring; readership of that newsgroup
may be able to provide additional insight into your decision.

What are other Europa builders doing?




http://ecfr.gpoaccess.gov/cgi/t/text....2.4.7&idno=14
§ 91.113 Right-of-way rules: Except water operations.
(a) Inapplicability. This section does not apply to the operation
of an aircraft on water.

(b) General. When weather conditions permit, regardless of whether
an operation is conducted under instrument flight rules or visual
flight rules, vigilance shall be maintained by each person
operating an aircraft so as to see and avoid other aircraft. When
a rule of this section gives another aircraft the right-of-way,
the pilot shall give way to that aircraft and may not pass over,
under, or ahead of it unless well clear.

(c) In distress. An aircraft in distress has the right-of-way over
all other air traffic.

(d) Converging. When aircraft of the same category are converging
at approximately the same altitude (except head-on, or nearly so),
the aircraft to the other's right has the right-of-way. If the
aircraft are of different categories—

(1) A balloon has the right-of-way over any other category of
aircraft;

(2) A glider has the right-of-way over an airship, powered
parachute, weight-shift-control aircraft, airplane, or rotorcraft.

(3) An airship has the right-of-way over a powered parachute,
weight-shift-control aircraft, airplane, or rotorcraft.

However, an aircraft towing or refueling other aircraft has the
right-of-way over all other engine-driven aircraft.

...

One reason to register as a glider is that it may be more valuable on sale,
because of the medical issue. Right now, a pilot who has been denied a
medical may not be licensed under the new sport-pilot rules, but can fly a
glider/motorglider so long as he can certify himself.

One caution is that once certified as an aircraft, it may be difficult to
recertify it as a glider. So, if you think you may ever want it certified
as a glider, then do it with the original certification.

Colin N12HS


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Larry Dighera wrote:

I am unable
to think of a single negative aspect to choosing to register your
Europa as a glider.

The vast majority of pilots have an airplane license and NOT
a glider license (in the USA). They will not be able to get insurance
without at least a glider solo endorsement and a self-launch
endorsement. There are at least 100 ASEL CFIs to every self-launch
capable CFIG, so finding an instructor is difficult even
if you provide the Europa for training for free prior to purchase.

So if you decide to get a partner or sell the aircraft, you will either
have a smaller pool of potential interested pilots, or will have
to convince interested parties to take glider training.

Whether this negative is overriden by other positives is something
you'll have to consider...

I wish the USA would instantly grant glider privs. to every
airplane pilot. Then the only thing stopping a pilot from
flying a glider would be the need for a launch endorsement.
I've never met an ASEL pilot who couldn't safely fly a glider
in all the other areas by the time he had learned to safely aerotow...
--

------------+
Mark J. Boyd

In article . net,
COLIN LAMB wrote:
One reason to register as a glider is that it may be more valuable on sale,
because of the medical issue. Right now, a pilot who has been denied a
medical may not be licensed under the new sport-pilot rules, but can fly a
glider/motorglider so long as he can certify himself.

The Europa Vne is so high it would not qualify as a glider under
sport pilot. If the max cruise is low enough, it may qualify as
a Light Sport Airplane, however, with all the advantages of
minimal maint. certification and no medical...

Anyone know the Europa max cruise speed in level flight?
--

------------+
Mark J. Boyd

Doesn't need to. It would be certified as a glider, experimental, amateur
built.
There is no category for motorglider. It would not be subject to weight,
speed
limitations, other than what you put down on the certification papers when
you
get it certified. Builder's choice.

Mark James Boyd wrote in message 41964365$1@darkstar...
In article . net,
COLIN LAMB wrote:
One reason to register as a glider is that it may be more valuable on
sale,
because of the medical issue. Right now, a pilot who has been denied a
medical may not be licensed under the new sport-pilot rules, but can fly a
glider/motorglider so long as he can certify himself.

The Europa Vne is so high it would not qualify as a glider under
sport pilot. If the max cruise is low enough, it may qualify as
a Light Sport Airplane, however, with all the advantages of
minimal maint. certification and no medical...

Anyone know the Europa max cruise speed in level flight?
--

------------+
Mark J. Boyd

"Mark James Boyd" wrote in message
news:4196428a$1@darkstar...
I've never met an ASEL pilot who couldn't safely fly a glider
in all the other areas by the time he had learned to safely aerotow...

Then you are just lucky.

Vaughn

One caution is that once certified as an aircraft, it may be difficult to
recertify it as a glider. So, if you think you may ever want it certified
as a glider, then do it with the original certification.

Colin N12HS

An Airplane and a Glider are both AIRCRAFT... so how do you intend to
certify it?

I think you meant to say, Airplane,, not Aircraft.. and yes.. once certified
one way, it is difficult to change...

BT

On 13 Nov 2004 09:21:14 -0700, (Mark James Boyd)
wrote:

Larry Dighera wrote:

I am unable
to think of a single negative aspect to choosing to register your
Europa as a glider.

The vast majority of pilots have an airplane license and NOT
a glider license (in the USA). They will not be able to get insurance
without at least a glider solo endorsement and a self-launch
endorsement. There are at least 100 ASEL CFIs to every self-launch
capable CFIG, so finding an instructor is difficult even
if you provide the Europa for training for free prior to purchase.

So if you decide to get a partner or sell the aircraft, you will either
have a smaller pool of potential interested pilots, or will have
to convince interested parties to take glider training.

Whether this negative is overriden by other positives is something
you'll have to consider...

I wish the USA would instantly grant glider privs. to every
airplane pilot. Then the only thing stopping a pilot from
flying a glider would be the need for a launch endorsement.
I've never met an ASEL pilot who couldn't safely fly a glider
in all the other areas by the time he had learned to safely aerotow...



I've never met an ASEL pilot who couldn't safely fly a glider
in all the other areas by the time he had learned to safely aerotow...

That is an absurd statement.

"I've never met an ASEL pilot who couldn't safely fly a glider
in all the other areas by the time he had learned to safely aerotow"

Hello - I am one. I was a power pilot first and used to make my glider
instructor sick with uncoordinated turns. My brain kept kicking the yarn
instead of pulling it. Took a number of flights before I was safe, just
because of that trick. Once that was learned, the self launch endorsement
brought out additional required skills, like how to turn an aircraft with
long wings around without hitting things on the ground, and how to get out a
pothole without sufficient power.

Transistioning from one type of aircraft to another brings unique problems,
because of all the "bad" habits that need to be unlearned and new skills
needed.

Colin N12HS





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Well, one of the points was that certification as a glider means no
medical. My point was that certification as an Airplane-LSA
also means no medical.

Additionally, if it is an LSA (either as an LSA glider or as
an LSA airplane) a repairman with 16 hours of training can do the
yearly condition inspection. If it is just glider-experimental-amateur
built then an A&P or the builder must do the condition inspection.

I own an airplane-experimental which qualifies as an LSA.
Because of this, I and my partners have looked very
closely at the LSA repairman rules and are very interested
in taking the LSA inspection course.

If you own a glider which may qualify as an LSA, I suggest you look
carefully at these regulations and the possibilities they afford.

The SGS 2-33, SZD 50-3, SGS 1-34, SGS 1-26, Std Libelle,
Open Cirrus, ASW-15, H301, etc. seem to all qualify.
Vne 120kts or less, under 1320lbs meets the requirements.
The Vne seems to be the discriminator.

I'm still surprised why the PW-5, Apis, and Sparrowhawk are
121 or 123 Knots Vne. One would have thought the designers
would jigger something enough to reduce the Vne to 120 to
meet this rule. I've had enough contact with these
and other manufacturers to notice that the potential marketing
benefits of Sport Pilot and LSA are only partially understood...

In article ,
wrote:
Doesn't need to. It would be certified as a glider, experimental, amateur
built.
There is no category for motorglider. It would not be subject to weight,
speed
limitations, other than what you put down on the certification papers when
you
get it certified. Builder's choice.

Mark James Boyd wrote in message 41964365$1@darkstar...
In article . net,
COLIN LAMB wrote:
One reason to register as a glider is that it may be more valuable on
sale,
because of the medical issue. Right now, a pilot who has been denied a
medical may not be licensed under the new sport-pilot rules, but can fly a
glider/motorglider so long as he can certify himself.

The Europa Vne is so high it would not qualify as a glider under
sport pilot. If the max cruise is low enough, it may qualify as
a Light Sport Airplane, however, with all the advantages of
minimal maint. certification and no medical...

Anyone know the Europa max cruise speed in level flight?
--

------------+
Mark J. Boyd




--

------------+
Mark J. Boyd