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Flaps on take-off and landing
At what point does one normally set flaps before take-off? I've been
doing it only when aligning with the runway, on the theory that extending flaps prior to that would just make me more vulnerable to wind while on the taxiway or at the gate. Similarly, I retract the flaps completely as soon as I'm completely on the runway for landing, so that the wind doesn't push me around. Is this the correct way to do it? -- Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail. |
#2
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Flaps on take-off and landing
I generally extend flaps as I approach the holding point, stops the wind grabbing you and better visibility all round (well for the Cessna) As for retracting, I use them for a drag advantage to slow the aircraft down and retract when I have full nosewheel steering control of the aircraft! This is real world, as for simulator.. just throw them down during the taxy! Generally, airline drivers have flaps set prior to taxy after pushback! Jad Mxsmanic wrote: At what point does one normally set flaps before take-off? I've been doing it only when aligning with the runway, on the theory that extending flaps prior to that would just make me more vulnerable to wind while on the taxiway or at the gate. Similarly, I retract the flaps completely as soon as I'm completely on the runway for landing, so that the wind doesn't push me around. Is this the correct way to do it? |
#3
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Flaps on take-off and landing
"Mxsmanic" wrote in message
... At what point does one normally set flaps before take-off? I've been doing it only when aligning with the runway, on the theory that extending flaps prior to that would just make me more vulnerable to wind while on the taxiway or at the gate. Similarly, I retract the flaps completely as soon as I'm completely on the runway for landing, so that the wind doesn't push me around. Is this the correct way to do it? It depends on the airplane and the pilot. Personally, for the airplane I am flying the most, I have the flaps down from preflight to takeoff. This is because the airplane requires flaps for landings and takeoffs, there is only one "flaps down" setting, and I like having the flaps down during the preflight as well. So I put the flaps down before a landing, and they don't come up until after the next takeoff. For Cessnas, which generally don't require flaps for takeoff, it's a different matter. I lower the flaps for the preflight inspection so that I can properly inspect the flap mechanisms, but then retract them after engine start and before taxiing. Certain takeoffs may dictate lowering them again prior to takeoff, which I do as part of my pre-takeoff checks, which include reviewing the takeoff procedure checklist (flap setting is listed with the checklist items for the takeoff itself). Some pilots retract the flaps as soon as they touchdown, with the theory that this will enhance their braking. However, IMHO this ignores the fact that there is more aerodynamic braking with the flaps down early in the roll out, and by the time the extra drag is negligible, so is any additional lift the flaps might be generating. It also ignores the hazard in some airplanes of accidently retracting the landing gear rather than the flaps. Other airplanes run the gamut in terms of what's required or desired operationally, and of course each pilot may have their own preferences as well. IMHO, since you're not actually flying an airplane, I wouldn't worry about it. Put the flaps down whenever you want. Pete |
#4
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Flaps on take-off and landing
Mxsmanic,
Is this the correct way to do it? No. But who cares - you're not flying, you're simming. For take-off, it is usually done as part of the "before take-off" checklist, which is done at the holding point of the runway, but not on the runway. You don't want to spend much time sitting on the runway. Also, many planes do not require flaps for take-off. For landing, you don't want to accidentally touch the wrong switch while in a hurry on the runway (e.g. the gear switch - happens often). Your primary concern is to get off the runway. After that, stop and complete the after landing checklist, which includes flaps. Your stall speed is reduced by the flaps by maybe 10 or 20 knots. If the wind is blowing enough for your stall speed to be a factor - don't fly. -- Thomas Borchert (EDDH) |
#5
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Flaps on take-off and landing
Thomas Borchert wrote: Mxsmanic, Is this the correct way to do it? No. But who cares - you're not flying, you're simming. For take-off, it is usually done as part of the "before take-off" checklist, which is done at the holding point of the runway, but not on the runway. You don't want to spend much time sitting on the runway. Also, many planes do not require flaps for take-off. For landing, you don't want to accidentally touch the wrong switch while in a hurry on the runway (e.g. the gear switch - happens often). Your primary concern is to get off the runway. After that, stop and complete the after landing checklist, which includes flaps. Your stall speed is reduced by the flaps by maybe 10 or 20 knots. If the wind is blowing enough for your stall speed to be a factor - don't fly. -- Thomas Borchert (EDDH) In our club Cessna Cardinal I typically touch down, and set a nose high attitude to get some aerodynamic braking going with the flaps down, as soon as I feel the brake pedals have effect I'll set flaps to zero, by the time the flaps are lifted about 15 degrees of deflection the aerodynamic braking has become negligible and it's all in the pedals (around 30 KIAS), also Hawai'i has some messed up winds, 0 knot winds prevail from evening till morning while morning will have around 10 knot winds at 040, while the afternoon will have 15-ish gusting to 30-ish at 030 to 050, so having flaps down on the ground is a negative because I've seen airplanes start flying halfway through their roll-out after landing. |
#6
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Flaps on take-off and landing
I agree and consider Flaps a "luxury", to be used only when necessary. Fly
the airplane... wrote in message ups.com... Thomas Borchert wrote: Mxsmanic, Is this the correct way to do it? No. But who cares - you're not flying, you're simming. For take-off, it is usually done as part of the "before take-off" checklist, which is done at the holding point of the runway, but not on the runway. You don't want to spend much time sitting on the runway. Also, many planes do not require flaps for take-off. For landing, you don't want to accidentally touch the wrong switch while in a hurry on the runway (e.g. the gear switch - happens often). Your primary concern is to get off the runway. After that, stop and complete the after landing checklist, which includes flaps. Your stall speed is reduced by the flaps by maybe 10 or 20 knots. If the wind is blowing enough for your stall speed to be a factor - don't fly. -- Thomas Borchert (EDDH) In our club Cessna Cardinal I typically touch down, and set a nose high attitude to get some aerodynamic braking going with the flaps down, as soon as I feel the brake pedals have effect I'll set flaps to zero, by the time the flaps are lifted about 15 degrees of deflection the aerodynamic braking has become negligible and it's all in the pedals (around 30 KIAS), also Hawai'i has some messed up winds, 0 knot winds prevail from evening till morning while morning will have around 10 knot winds at 040, while the afternoon will have 15-ish gusting to 30-ish at 030 to 050, so having flaps down on the ground is a negative because I've seen airplanes start flying halfway through their roll-out after landing. |
#7
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Flaps on take-off and landing
On Thu, 14 Sep 2006 07:55:05 +0200, Mxsmanic
wrote: Similarly, I retract the flaps completely as soon as I'm completely on the runway for landing, so that the wind doesn't push me around. Is this the correct way to do it? The first plane with flaps that I flew was a PA-18 Super Cub. When I reached for the flap lever (it has a name, but I forget), what I got was a rocket from my instructor in the back seat. "Don't touch anything till you stop rolling!" Of course the PA-18 is a taildragger and more sensitive to a pilot's inattention. A year later I took Damian Delgaizo's bush-flying course in Andover NJ. The plane was an Aviat Husky with a similar flap lever, and we made much greater use of it. The splendid trick was to fly over a cornfield (whatever) in ground effect, then dump the flaps as soon as the mains crossed the threshold of the (grass) field, so that the Husky stopped within 250 feet. |
#8
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Flaps on take-off and landing
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#9
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Flaps on take-off and landing
Johnson Bar
You can also use the flaps to "jump over" a fence or ditch that you see at the last moment before a forced landing if they are up for the glide. But the flaps move the center of lift aft on the wing and you need back elevator pressure to force the main gear (trike) or tailwheel on the ground to prevent weather vaning and skidding the wheels under braking. The flaps will tend to lift the lift the tail and you need to follow through on the flare to lever the balance point on the main gear. A tailwheel airplane will use some forward elevator for a wheel landing, but when the tail comes down [or is lowered] you still need the stick full aft. Of course during taxi you must use the ailerons and elevator to control for cross and tailwinds. "Cubdriver" usenet AT danford.net wrote in message ... | On Thu, 14 Sep 2006 07:55:05 +0200, Mxsmanic | wrote: | | Similarly, I retract the | flaps completely as soon as I'm completely on the runway for landing, | so that the wind doesn't push me around. Is this the correct way to | do it? | | The first plane with flaps that I flew was a PA-18 Super Cub. When I | reached for the flap lever (it has a name, but I forget), what I got | was a rocket from my instructor in the back seat. "Don't touch | anything till you stop rolling!" Of course the PA-18 is a taildragger | and more sensitive to a pilot's inattention. | | A year later I took Damian Delgaizo's bush-flying course in Andover | NJ. The plane was an Aviat Husky with a similar flap lever, and we | made much greater use of it. The splendid trick was to fly over a | cornfield (whatever) in ground effect, then dump the flaps as soon as | the mains crossed the threshold of the (grass) field, so that the | Husky stopped within 250 feet. | |
#10
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Flaps on take-off and landing
Thomas Borchert wrote: , knot winds prevail from evening till morning while morning will have around 10 knot winds at 040, while the afternoon will have 15-ish gusting to 30-ish at 030 to 050, so having flaps down on the ground is a negative because I've seen airplanes start flying halfway through their roll-out after landing. The Cardinal will not fly at gusts of 30 knots - no matter whether the flaps are down or not. -- Thomas Borchert (EDDH) Yes, but it will fly if your rolling along at 35 KIAS and a 25+ KIAS knot gust hits you, anyway it wasn't the Cardinal I saw do it, it was a piper cub, and yes I realize the chances of me doing that are slim, but I don't want to be the example/statistic. |
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