Best Overall Motorglider available today?

On Tuesday, September 15, 2020 at 1:48:13 PM UTC-4, Nick Kennedy wrote:
Didn't want to hijack the current FES tread so I thought I'd start a new one.
This topic came up over dinner a couple of weeks ago.

When you add all the following into a pot and stir, whats the "Best"
Say for Western Great Basin flying.

I think it may be the Carat, but I don't know much about it.
CX thinks its the DG 800 series, but all I know is since he bought that thing its been a endless battle to keep it running. But it does climb well.

FACTORS

Reliability
Maintenance required to keep it running
XC flyability, performance and control feel
Storability
Rigging
Initial cost
High density climb performance
Range
Cockpit layout and seating
Parts availability
Insurance cost
Landing gear complexity
Overall quality
Nick
T

Value and performance for the price- DG-400
UH

On 9/15/20 4:47 PM, wrote:
On Tuesday, September 15, 2020 at 1:48:13 PM UTC-4, Nick Kennedy wrote:
Didn't want to hijack the current FES tread so I thought I'd start a new one.
This topic came up over dinner a couple of weeks ago.

When you add all the following into a pot and stir, whats the "Best"
Say for Western Great Basin flying.

I think it may be the Carat, but I don't know much about it.
CX thinks its the DG 800 series, but all I know is since he bought that thing its been a endless battle to keep it running. But it does climb well.

FACTORS

Reliability
Maintenance required to keep it running
XC flyability, performance and control feel
Storability
Rigging
Initial cost
High density climb performance
Range
Cockpit layout and seating
Parts availability
Insurance cost
Landing gear complexity
Overall quality
Nick
T

Value and performance for the price- DG-400
UH


I saw a Monerai kit advertised for $4K. Hard to beat that. But
sometimes you get what you pay for.

On Tuesday, September 15, 2020 at 3:47:32 PM UTC-7, wrote:
On Tuesday, September 15, 2020 at 1:48:13 PM UTC-4, Nick Kennedy wrote:
Didn't want to hijack the current FES tread so I thought I'd start a new one.
This topic came up over dinner a couple of weeks ago.

When you add all the following into a pot and stir, whats the "Best"
Say for Western Great Basin flying.

I think it may be the Carat, but I don't know much about it.
CX thinks its the DG 800 series, but all I know is since he bought that thing its been a endless battle to keep it running. But it does climb well.

FACTORS

Reliability
Maintenance required to keep it running
XC flyability, performance and control feel
Storability
Rigging
Initial cost
High density climb performance
Range
Cockpit layout and seating
Parts availability
Insurance cost
Landing gear complexity
Overall quality
Nick
T
Value and performance for the price- DG-400
UH

As a former owner of a DG400 I can assertively say that it flunks miserably on:
1. Parts availability (no parts available for the engine)
2. Landing gear complexity (had the gear do an uncommanded retraction)
3. High-density climb performance

On Tuesday, September 15, 2020 at 1:48:13 PM UTC-4, Nick Kennedy wrote:
Didn't want to hijack the current FES tread so I thought I'd start a new one.
This topic came up over dinner a couple of weeks ago.

When you add all the following into a pot and stir, whats the "Best"
Say for Western Great Basin flying.

I think it may be the Carat, but I don't know much about it.
CX thinks its the DG 800 series, but all I know is since he bought that thing its been a endless battle to keep it running. But it does climb well.

FACTORS

Reliability
Maintenance required to keep it running
XC flyability, performance and control feel
Storability
Rigging
Initial cost
High density climb performance
Range
Cockpit layout and seating
Parts availability
Insurance cost
Landing gear complexity
Overall quality
Nick
T

I would give a shout for the Ventus 2CXM. Great performance. Only one minor problem with the self launch mechanism (it wasn't the motor) that our AP mechanic could fix in two hours. Up and flying same day. Extremely reliable.
One can argue the Wankle is less vibration on the whole, but maintenance for problems would be problematic. Pluses and minuses.
I chose the servicable Solo and the handling of the Ventus 2CX

On Thursday, September 17, 2020 at 5:51:39 AM UTC-7, John Iacobucci wrote:
On Tuesday, September 15, 2020 at 1:48:13 PM UTC-4, Nick Kennedy wrote:
Didn't want to hijack the current FES tread so I thought I'd start a new one.
This topic came up over dinner a couple of weeks ago.

When you add all the following into a pot and stir, whats the "Best"
Say for Western Great Basin flying.

I think it may be the Carat, but I don't know much about it.
CX thinks its the DG 800 series, but all I know is since he bought that thing its been a endless battle to keep it running. But it does climb well..

FACTORS

Reliability
Maintenance required to keep it running
XC flyability, performance and control feel
Storability
Rigging
Initial cost
High density climb performance
Range
Cockpit layout and seating
Parts availability
Insurance cost
Landing gear complexity
Overall quality
Nick
T

I would give a shout for the Ventus 2CXM. Great performance. Only one minor problem with the self launch mechanism (it wasn't the motor) that our AP mechanic could fix in two hours. Up and flying same day. Extremely reliable.
One can argue the Wankle is less vibration on the whole, but maintenance for problems would be problematic. Pluses and minuses.
I chose the servicable Solo and the handling of the Ventus 2CX


Regarding the Pipistrel Sinus Flex:
Soaring performance claims are not consistent in all places where advertised and published in the owners manual, L/D numbers range from 21 to 30 . After flying mine a short time I believe with short wing tips (40 feet) the glide ratio is around 20-21, long tips (50 feet) around 25-27.

Visibility in turns while thermalling is very bad, in a Cessna 150 you can at least lean forward and look around the corner of the leading edge. In the SInus your head is behind the spar, you can not lean forward far enough to see. You would have to lift the wing to see where you are going in a turn and of course that would move the center of the circle you are flying. I am mounting cameras on top of the wing to give me a view above the wing. Hopefully that will help.

On the other hand, the SInus is fun to fly, extremely stable , roomy and very comfortable cockpit, makes a great two place airplane that easily cruises at 110 knots on 3 GPH , and you can operate from essentially every airport easily.

Peter van Schoonhoven
Battle Ground, WA

So, you've owned the Wankel and had problematic maintenance? Or you are guessing? The Wankel is an ICE, it has a fuel system, ignition system, cooling system, and belt drive reduction system as they all do. Maintenance tasks are identical in most respects with any glider ICE. Only if you have to tear the engine down completely will you see the differences (and here the Wankel is somewhat simpler, having 2 moving parts).

On Thursday, September 17, 2020 at 5:51:39 AM UTC-7, John Iacobucci wrote:
One can argue the Wankle is less vibration on the whole, but maintenance for problems would be problematic. Pluses and minuses.

On Thursday, September 17, 2020 at 11:24:30 AM UTC-4, jfitch wrote:
So, you've owned the Wankel and had problematic maintenance? Or you are guessing? The Wankel is an ICE, it has a fuel system, ignition system, cooling system, and belt drive reduction system as they all do. Maintenance tasks are identical in most respects with any glider ICE. Only if you have to tear the engine down completely will you see the differences (and here the Wankel is somewhat simpler, having 2 moving parts).
On Thursday, September 17, 2020 at 5:51:39 AM UTC-7, John Iacobucci wrote:
One can argue the Wankle is less vibration on the whole, but maintenance for problems would be problematic. Pluses and minuses.

In response to jfitch: not guessing. Have two friends had to send engine to Europe for work. After all the bother of sending it, being in the factory more than a season, they were told to buy a new one. Very expensive. Like I said, my only problem was solved by a local mechanic in two hours. Back to flying same day. Not guessing, just relaying my experience

Back to the op question, is the new AS33ME will be the answer?

https://www.alexander-schleicher.de/...self-launcher/

Ramy

On Saturday, November 28, 2020 at 8:22:24 PM UTC-8, John Iacobucci wrote:
On Thursday, September 17, 2020 at 11:24:30 AM UTC-4, jfitch wrote:
So, you've owned the Wankel and had problematic maintenance? Or you are guessing? The Wankel is an ICE, it has a fuel system, ignition system, cooling system, and belt drive reduction system as they all do. Maintenance tasks are identical in most respects with any glider ICE. Only if you have to tear the engine down completely will you see the differences (and here the Wankel is somewhat simpler, having 2 moving parts).
On Thursday, September 17, 2020 at 5:51:39 AM UTC-7, John Iacobucci wrote:
One can argue the Wankle is less vibration on the whole, but maintenance for problems would be problematic. Pluses and minuses.

In response to jfitch: not guessing. Have two friends had to send engine to Europe for work. After all the bother of sending it, being in the factory more than a season, they were told to buy a new one. Very expensive. Like I said, my only problem was solved by a local mechanic in two hours. Back to flying same day. Not guessing, just relaying my experience

I would think the vaunted Jeta would be the obvious answer. I remember
you saying it looked great (on paper), but you were going to wait until
they showed up on the used market. Wait no longer, you can pick one up
on W&W today. A used glider with just zero hours on it! New glider
smell with a used glider price!

https://wingsandwheels.com/classifie...gp15-jeta.html



On 12/13/20 5:39 PM, Ramy wrote:
Back to the op question, is the new AS33ME will be the answer?

https://www.alexander-schleicher.de/...self-launcher/

Ramy

On Saturday, November 28, 2020 at 8:22:24 PM UTC-8, John Iacobucci wrote:
On Thursday, September 17, 2020 at 11:24:30 AM UTC-4, jfitch wrote:
So, you've owned the Wankel and had problematic maintenance? Or you are guessing? The Wankel is an ICE, it has a fuel system, ignition system, cooling system, and belt drive reduction system as they all do. Maintenance tasks are identical in most respects with any glider ICE. Only if you have to tear the engine down completely will you see the differences (and here the Wankel is somewhat simpler, having 2 moving parts).
On Thursday, September 17, 2020 at 5:51:39 AM UTC-7, John Iacobucci wrote:
One can argue the Wankle is less vibration on the whole, but maintenance for problems would be problematic. Pluses and minuses.

In response to jfitch: not guessing. Have two friends had to send engine to Europe for work. After all the bother of sending it, being in the factory more than a season, they were told to buy a new one. Very expensive. Like I said, my only problem was solved by a local mechanic in two hours. Back to flying same day. Not guessing, just relaying my experience

On Monday, 14 December 2020 at 02:39:25 UTC+2, Ramy wrote:
Back to the op question, is the new AS33ME will be the answer?

https://www.alexander-schleicher.de/...self-launcher/

Ramy

Yes.