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Taildragger tail dragging?



 
 
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  #1  
Old January 16th 05, 08:16 PM
ShawnD2112
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Default Taildragger tail dragging?

Got a question for you taildragger old-timers.

I've often thought about attitude and altitude control with power and
elevator in various combinations and have wondered if it's possible to get a
taildragger to literally drag it's tailwheel on the runway with the mains
off, and do it intentionally, kind of like slowflight but REALLY low over
the runway. I mean, we often try to land tailwheel first, so I was
wondering if it's possible to set up to do it partially and prevent the
mains from touching. I've tried in the Tcraft but can't seem to manage it.

Anyone here ever done such a thing?

Shawn


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  #2  
Old January 16th 05, 10:17 PM
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Default

Shawn
Yes its quite possible in a number of aircraft. With a few students, I
would let them pick the wheel to touchdown and hold it there without
the others touching. It takes some finesse for the tailwheel but very
doable and not unsafe in my opinion. Just requires careful coordination
of the controls...ALL of them.
Ol S&B

  #3  
Old January 16th 05, 10:56 PM
private
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My acro instructor used this as a demonstration of control in a 7eca.

He would fly low in touch down attitude and tap the wheel on the ground 3
times then pick up the tail without touching the mains, fly level a short
distance then repeat the tapping exercise. I have often seen him do this 3
or four times then land or go around all within 2000' of runway.

Blue skies
"ShawnD2112" wrote in message
. uk...
Got a question for you taildragger old-timers.

I've often thought about attitude and altitude control with power and
elevator in various combinations and have wondered if it's possible to get

a
taildragger to literally drag it's tailwheel on the runway with the mains
off, and do it intentionally, kind of like slowflight but REALLY low over
the runway. I mean, we often try to land tailwheel first, so I was
wondering if it's possible to set up to do it partially and prevent the
mains from touching. I've tried in the Tcraft but can't seem to manage

it.

Anyone here ever done such a thing?

Shawn




  #4  
Old January 16th 05, 11:31 PM
Robert M. Gary
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Default


ShawnD2112 wrote:
Got a question for you taildragger old-timers.

I've often thought about attitude and altitude control with power and


elevator in various combinations and have wondered if it's possible

to get a
taildragger to literally drag it's tailwheel on the runway with the

mains
off, and do it intentionally, kind of like slowflight but REALLY low

over
the runway. I mean, we often try to land tailwheel first, so I was
wondering if it's possible to set up to do it partially and prevent

the
mains from touching. I've tried in the Tcraft but can't seem to

manage it.

Anyone here ever done such a thing?


It really depends on the plane. You would never be able to get a
taildragger such a Swift to do that, and an Aeronca wouldn't do it for
long. However, a Citabria would do it very easily, a C140 would be
someone easy to do it to. The attitude a tailwheel touches down in is
RARELY the stall attitude. Some tailwheels stall before the 3pt
attitude, some are no where near stall (Citabria).

-Robert CFI

  #5  
Old January 16th 05, 11:33 PM
ShawnD2112
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Default

THAT'S cool! OK, now that you and Ol S&B have told me it's possible, I'm
back on the quest!

Thanks for that, guys!

Shawn
"private" wrote in message
news:[email protected]
My acro instructor used this as a demonstration of control in a 7eca.

He would fly low in touch down attitude and tap the wheel on the ground 3
times then pick up the tail without touching the mains, fly level a short
distance then repeat the tapping exercise. I have often seen him do this
3
or four times then land or go around all within 2000' of runway.

Blue skies
"ShawnD2112" wrote in message
. uk...
Got a question for you taildragger old-timers.

I've often thought about attitude and altitude control with power and
elevator in various combinations and have wondered if it's possible to
get

a
taildragger to literally drag it's tailwheel on the runway with the mains
off, and do it intentionally, kind of like slowflight but REALLY low over
the runway. I mean, we often try to land tailwheel first, so I was
wondering if it's possible to set up to do it partially and prevent the
mains from touching. I've tried in the Tcraft but can't seem to manage

it.

Anyone here ever done such a thing?

Shawn






  #6  
Old January 16th 05, 11:35 PM
ShawnD2112
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Default

Thanks, Robert. I was concious of the stall angle while on the ground, and
the Tcraft I've tried it in isn't stalled on the ground. To me it seemed
like an exercise in controlling the sink rate and attitude with power,
definitely holding it behind the power curve. I think I'm just gonna have
to think about it a bit more and try it out a lot more!

Shawn

"Robert M. Gary" wrote in message
oups.com...

ShawnD2112 wrote:
Got a question for you taildragger old-timers.

I've often thought about attitude and altitude control with power and


elevator in various combinations and have wondered if it's possible

to get a
taildragger to literally drag it's tailwheel on the runway with the

mains
off, and do it intentionally, kind of like slowflight but REALLY low

over
the runway. I mean, we often try to land tailwheel first, so I was
wondering if it's possible to set up to do it partially and prevent

the
mains from touching. I've tried in the Tcraft but can't seem to

manage it.

Anyone here ever done such a thing?


It really depends on the plane. You would never be able to get a
taildragger such a Swift to do that, and an Aeronca wouldn't do it for
long. However, a Citabria would do it very easily, a C140 would be
someone easy to do it to. The attitude a tailwheel touches down in is
RARELY the stall attitude. Some tailwheels stall before the 3pt
attitude, some are no where near stall (Citabria).

-Robert CFI



  #7  
Old January 17th 05, 12:01 AM
private
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Be careful, may not be possible in all types or conditions.

This would fit my definition of a max performance maneuver while both low
and slow. As always, get proper instruction. YMMV.

Blue skies to all

"ShawnD2112" wrote in message
. uk...
THAT'S cool! OK, now that you and Ol S&B have told me it's possible, I'm
back on the quest!

Thanks for that, guys!

Shawn
"private" wrote in message
news:[email protected]
My acro instructor used this as a demonstration of control in a 7eca.

He would fly low in touch down attitude and tap the wheel on the ground

3
times then pick up the tail without touching the mains, fly level a

short
distance then repeat the tapping exercise. I have often seen him do

this
3
or four times then land or go around all within 2000' of runway.

Blue skies
"ShawnD2112" wrote in message
. uk...
Got a question for you taildragger old-timers.

I've often thought about attitude and altitude control with power and
elevator in various combinations and have wondered if it's possible to
get

a
taildragger to literally drag it's tailwheel on the runway with the

mains
off, and do it intentionally, kind of like slowflight but REALLY low

over
the runway. I mean, we often try to land tailwheel first, so I was
wondering if it's possible to set up to do it partially and prevent the
mains from touching. I've tried in the Tcraft but can't seem to manage

it.

Anyone here ever done such a thing?

Shawn








  #8  
Old January 17th 05, 03:22 AM
G.R. Patterson III
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Posts: n/a
Default



ShawnD2112 wrote:

I've often thought about attitude and altitude control with power and
elevator in various combinations and have wondered if it's possible to get a
taildragger to literally drag it's tailwheel on the runway with the mains
off, and do it intentionally, kind of like slowflight but REALLY low over
the runway.


It's possible in a Maule. I'm not sure I could do it with the flaps up, however,
and that may be your problem with the T-crate. Does it have flaps?

George Patterson
The desire for safety stands against every great and noble enterprise.
  #9  
Old January 17th 05, 06:06 AM
Stealth Pilot
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Default

On Sun, 16 Jan 2005 20:16:01 GMT, "ShawnD2112"
wrote:

Got a question for you taildragger old-timers.

I've often thought about attitude and altitude control with power and
elevator in various combinations and have wondered if it's possible to get a
taildragger to literally drag it's tailwheel on the runway with the mains
off, and do it intentionally, kind of like slowflight but REALLY low over
the runway. I mean, we often try to land tailwheel first, so I was
wondering if it's possible to set up to do it partially and prevent the
mains from touching. I've tried in the Tcraft but can't seem to manage it.

Anyone here ever done such a thing?

Shawn

I have done it once in the W8 tailwind, 2 stages of flap. used it in a
crosswind situation that was going to guano and drove the tail where I
needed it with the tailwheel. the tailwheel first contact was
accidental.

as for practising this. this is dumb. you are achieving nothing
useful. know that it is possible and make use of it if you are ever in
the situation but go and practise normal three point landings until
you can do them gently with the windsock horizontal in any direction.
that will make you a skilled pilot.

Stealth Pilot
  #10  
Old January 17th 05, 06:56 AM
ShawnD2112
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Posts: n/a
Default

Thanks for that, Stealth, but I can do that already in both the Taylorcraft
and the Pitts. Controlled landings in any but tailwheel-only configuration
aren't a problem. In fact, maybe that is the problem - one wheeled landings
aren't that much of a challenge any more. As for achieving nothing useful,
I disagree. It might be a good control exercise, as one person has said
here, and also it would be fun to try and, at the end of the day, that's why
I fly.

Shawn
"Stealth Pilot" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 16 Jan 2005 20:16:01 GMT, "ShawnD2112"
wrote:

Got a question for you taildragger old-timers.

I've often thought about attitude and altitude control with power and
elevator in various combinations and have wondered if it's possible to get
a
taildragger to literally drag it's tailwheel on the runway with the mains
off, and do it intentionally, kind of like slowflight but REALLY low over
the runway. I mean, we often try to land tailwheel first, so I was
wondering if it's possible to set up to do it partially and prevent the
mains from touching. I've tried in the Tcraft but can't seem to manage
it.

Anyone here ever done such a thing?

Shawn

I have done it once in the W8 tailwind, 2 stages of flap. used it in a
crosswind situation that was going to guano and drove the tail where I
needed it with the tailwheel. the tailwheel first contact was
accidental.

as for practising this. this is dumb. you are achieving nothing
useful. know that it is possible and make use of it if you are ever in
the situation but go and practise normal three point landings until
you can do them gently with the windsock horizontal in any direction.
that will make you a skilled pilot.

Stealth Pilot



 




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