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#1
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Owning before obtaining a PP license
Hello all,
Wanted to hear your advice about buying a brand-new plane even before getting the PPL ticket. Here is my situation: I am a businessman sitting on quite a bit of cash being generated by my business, and I am also a student pilot, will probably get my ticket by the next Summer. I am thinking about buying one of them Cirri SR22. Considering that the inflation in this country is picking up, and also that there is quite a long waitlist for those Cirrus aircraft, would it make sense for me to place an order now, and until I get my ticket and gain some experience, to lease the plane back to my local FBO? Does this make sense economically, or am I totally crazy? In general, how good an investment are those brand-new airplanes, provided one can afford to pay cash for them? Thanks in advance, A Newbie Pilot |
#2
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Don't spend hundreds of thousands of dollars before you get your license.
You may find that you don't like flying, or you don't have one of the necessary skills to be a safe pilot, particularly in a higher performance airplane. Wait until you know what type of flyer you are (or will be) and pick a suitable airplane at the time. If you're thinking Cirrus long term, when the time comes to buy, get a Tomahawk, Cherokee, or Grumman to get a feel for low wing aircraft and systems. That'll make the transition to the Cirrus easier, and you won't lose too much money on any of those aircraft. In addition, if you really want to do a lease-back, those airplanes will be affordable enough that you might actually rent them enough so you don't lose your shirt. Unless you live in the perfect environment (plenty of people with money and free time, plus excellent weather), I don't see how you'd do enough rental business on a Cirrus to even put a dent in the ownership cost. "New Pilot" wrote in message . .. Hello all, Wanted to hear your advice about buying a brand-new plane even before getting the PPL ticket. Here is my situation: I am a businessman sitting on quite a bit of cash being generated by my business, and I am also a student pilot, will probably get my ticket by the next Summer. I am thinking about buying one of them Cirri SR22. Considering that the inflation in this country is picking up, and also that there is quite a long waitlist for those Cirrus aircraft, would it make sense for me to place an order now, and until I get my ticket and gain some experience, to lease the plane back to my local FBO? Does this make sense economically, or am I totally crazy? In general, how good an investment are those brand-new airplanes, provided one can afford to pay cash for them? Thanks in advance, A Newbie Pilot |
#3
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Ask your tax professional if you would benefit from sec 179 depreciation.
As far as Cirrus specific information, check out the Cirrus Owners and Pilots Association at http://www.cirruspilots.org/ . Spend the $50 to join, it'll pay for itself many times. If you are halfway through your training and pretty sure you will continue with it, by all means get on the ownership train. Jim "New Pilot" wrote in message . .. Hello all, Wanted to hear your advice about buying a brand-new plane even before getting the PPL ticket. Here is my situation: I am a businessman sitting on quite a bit of cash being generated by my business, and I am also a student pilot, will probably get my ticket by the next Summer. I am thinking about buying one of them Cirri SR22. Considering that the inflation in this country is picking up, and also that there is quite a long waitlist for those Cirrus aircraft, would it make sense for me to place an order now, and until I get my ticket and gain some experience, to lease the plane back to my local FBO? Does this make sense economically, or am I totally crazy? In general, how good an investment are those brand-new airplanes, provided one can afford to pay cash for them? Thanks in advance, A Newbie Pilot |
#4
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If you are sure you want to be an owner, then don't let not having a license
stop you. Lot's of people, including me, bought before they got the PPL. Purchase and ownership do take time though, so you are likely delaying your PPL completion. The SR22 is too much plane for many folks with 10 times your experience. In order to get one of those, and be able to fly it, you will pay HUGE amounts in insurance and training costs. I suggest buying something much more docile if you really want to own now. Wait until you have an IFR and a few hundred hours before getting that much airplane. Yes, they are nice and fast, and have long legs, but a 182 or Diamond Star won't be that far behind the 22, and they are much safer. If you plan to use depreciation, make sure you want to own a plane for life (otherwise, you have to pay it back). Lastly, if you really, really want to get up to an SR22 soon, buy a late model plane but not new. New planes take a big hit in the first two years, so if you are trading up quickly, its generally better to go used. "New Pilot" wrote in message . .. Hello all, Wanted to hear your advice about buying a brand-new plane even before getting the PPL ticket. Here is my situation: I am a businessman sitting on quite a bit of cash being generated by my business, and I am also a student pilot, will probably get my ticket by the next Summer. I am thinking about buying one of them Cirri SR22. Considering that the inflation in this country is picking up, and also that there is quite a long waitlist for those Cirrus aircraft, would it make sense for me to place an order now, and until I get my ticket and gain some experience, to lease the plane back to my local FBO? Does this make sense economically, or am I totally crazy? In general, how good an investment are those brand-new airplanes, provided one can afford to pay cash for them? Thanks in advance, A Newbie Pilot |
#5
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What makes sense economically is to pound a rental plane into the runway
and after you attain your licence and then some - you buy an aircraft that you look after. Do you really want to practice landings in your own new Cirrus? Tony C-GICE In article , "New Pilot" wrote: Hello all, Wanted to hear your advice about buying a brand-new plane even before getting the PPL ticket. Here is my situation: I am a businessman sitting on quite a bit of cash being generated by my business, and I am also a student pilot, will probably get my ticket by the next Summer. I am thinking about buying one of them Cirri SR22. Considering that the inflation in this country is picking up, and also that there is quite a long waitlist for those Cirrus aircraft, would it make sense for me to place an order now, and until I get my ticket and gain some experience, to lease the plane back to my local FBO? Does this make sense economically, or am I totally crazy? In general, how good an investment are those brand-new airplanes, provided one can afford to pay cash for them? Thanks in advance, A Newbie Pilot -- Tony Roberts PP-ASEL VFR OTT Night Cessna 172H C-GICE |
#6
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I agree.... I won't even do T & G's in my "new" '79 Mooney.... I'd much
rather pound the hell out of a rental 172 (at least try not to pound) then and aircraft I am going to have to repair. Gosh that makes me sound pretty insensitive doesn't it? JK tony roberts wrote: What makes sense economically is to pound a rental plane into the runway and after you attain your licence and then some - you buy an aircraft that you look after. Do you really want to practice landings in your own new Cirrus? Tony C-GICE In article , "New Pilot" wrote: Hello all, Wanted to hear your advice about buying a brand-new plane even before getting the PPL ticket. Here is my situation: I am a businessman sitting on quite a bit of cash being generated by my business, and I am also a student pilot, will probably get my ticket by the next Summer. I am thinking about buying one of them Cirri SR22. Considering that the inflation in this country is picking up, and also that there is quite a long waitlist for those Cirrus aircraft, would it make sense for me to place an order now, and until I get my ticket and gain some experience, to lease the plane back to my local FBO? Does this make sense economically, or am I totally crazy? In general, how good an investment are those brand-new airplanes, provided one can afford to pay cash for them? Thanks in advance, A Newbie Pilot |
#7
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"New Pilot" wrote in message . .. Hello all, Wanted to hear your advice about buying a brand-new plane even before getting the PPL ticket. Here is my situation: I am a businessman sitting on quite a bit of cash being generated by my business, and I am also a student pilot, will probably get my ticket by the next Summer. I am thinking about buying one of them Cirri SR22. You've probably heard the saying that "A fool and his money will soon have more airplane than either can handle." You're probably not a fool but it's a wise statement to heed nonetheless. Does this make sense economically, or am I totally crazy? In general, how good an investment are those brand-new airplanes, provided one can afford to pay cash for them? There's only one kind of new asset that stands a good chance of appreciating over time: a house. And that works only because they ain't makin' any more land. If you want to preserve your equity buy a low-time plane that's 10-20 years old in good shape. If you do buy a new plane with the intent to do a leaseback you want to buy a common plane that everyone knows how to fly already. A new 172SP or 182 with the G1000 would be the queen of any rental fleet and would probably get plenty of usage. Since it's under warranty you won't have to sweat maintenance costs. Oh, and either of these would be very realistic planes to learn to fly in and not get murdered on insurance. I'm usually very bearish on leasebacks but this one could work. -cwk. |
#8
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"Dude" wrote in message ...
.... but a 182 or Diamond Star won't be that far behind the 22, and they are much safer. I'm curious to see where this statement comes from. What data do you have to back up the statement that a Diamond Star or 182 is "safer" than the Cirrus SR22? Aside from that, as a newly minted PPL, most would not advise jumping into a high-perf airplane. What are you training in? If you like it, consider buying that model, new or used. Or others similar to it. If you want to unload that pile of cash, you can spend it nicely on a new Cessna 172/182 or a Piper Archer. Over $200K. In a year or two you'll probably be able to sell it for a good percentage of what you paid. Save your pile of cash for down the road when you're adequately prepared for the step up. And, as others have said, you'll have a real hard time getting insured as a new pilot, without IFR, with low hours, in an SR22 to fly it solo. They may even require 50 hours or more with an instructor with time in type. |
#9
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I bought a J4 when I had three hours instruction. I soloed in it and
flew many hours as a student. You will not beat the system any way you choose to fly. Private aviation is an extravagence. Business aviation another story. If you can write it off in the business great, otherwise open your wallet. I definately would not buy a relative new design aircraft. After owning a PA28 -140 for twenty years you would be surprised how the AD's pop up and take more of your money. Buy a Mooney or fixed gear Piper. Then move up when you get some experience. |
#10
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George Hamilton wrote:
I bought a J4 when I had three hours instruction. I soloed in it and flew many hours as a student. You will not beat the system any way you choose to fly. Private aviation is an extravagence. Business aviation another story. If you can write it off in the business Define "extravagence" (please take this in the gentle manner it's offered, the word is "extravagance", but brownie points for using the noun version properly rather than "extravagant") I live out in the Rocky Mountains. If I want a day of skiing, lift tickets are $40-85 per day (yes, I could get a season pass but those are to specific areas or groups of areas). Transportation, call it 100 miles each way (Vail is 100 sm from my front door) or at 25 mpg in my car, 8 gallons or $16. Don't forget lunch. Let's be pragmatic. If I'm spending over $100/day, another $5-10 for lunch isn't going to be the deciding issue. I moved to Colorado to ski and used to get in 50-60 days. No more - I took up flying when I quit skiing. If I were skiing that much the $300-400 season ticket would be the first thing to buy. But cheap season tickets didn't exist when I was skiing like that, so it wasn't difficult to spend $4000 (now it wouldbe $5K-6K) just on lift tickets in a season. Wait! Forgot the gear (warm clothes, boots, skis or board). Not that many people out here buy new gear every year. I've still got my skis and bindings from 10 yrs ago (the "rock skis") and stuff from 5 years ago. Guess it's time for new stuff. That'll probably set me back about $450-750 (boots, skis & bindings). Hm...my fixed costs per year for the cherokee are Hangar $3000 Insurance $1000 Maint $1000 total 5000 Awfully similar to skiing.... And I get to fly to Sante Fe or Taos for lunch in nice weather and be home in time for dinner. Or Devil's Tower AND Mt Rushmore in one day with friends from the flatlands east of the Mississippi. Or fly to Phoenix in less than 6 hours instead of the 2 days of driving. And I can carry nail clippers if I choose! Extravagance is in the mind of the beholder. I have friends who are diehard wind surfers -- any time of the year (wetsuits in the winter!). Sitting on the wall in their garage are 3 boards and sails for each of them! Some people would consider stamp collecting, model railroading, or gardening as extravagances. It's up to each person to decide on the hobby of choice. |
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