Young Eagle Safety

I fiddled with the math on the probable number of Y/E hours flown,
and the few known number of nonserious incidents (something like 3
since 1991) to compute the accident rate/100,000 hours. Having a
Y/E aboard is one of the safest ways to fly. The rate is so low
that it isn't necessary to adjust for the fact that most accidents
occur within a few miles of an airport, for a wider variance.

My reaction to this activity I didn't really predict until I got
into it. You simply do not take aloft the child of a parent,
standing right there and talking to you even briefly, trying
actually to sense what you're like, without a serious feeling of
responsibility. You are to return the child or children safely.
If a pilot in the chapter would rather not volunteer for that
unstated reason, even if a good pilot, that pilot has my respect
too. If he or she were to ask me if I was bothered by this, I
would say yes, a bit. I hope it makes me fly properly.

Fred F.

TaxSrv wrote:

You simply do not take aloft the child of a parent,
standing right there and talking to you even briefly, trying
actually to sense what you're like, without a serious feeling of
responsibility.

Excellent point. I was uncomfortable presenting my aircraft for young eagles
flights simply because the paint had gotten pretty bad (Maules used to have
really poor paint jobs). I would never have made those flights if I suspected
that the aircraft was in less than top mechanical condition.

George Patterson
Drink is the curse of the land. It makes you quarrel with your neighbor.
It makes you shoot at your landlord. And it makes you miss him.

"TaxSrv" == TaxSrv writes:

TaxSrv My reaction to this activity I didn't really predict until
TaxSrv I got into it. You simply do not take aloft the child of
TaxSrv a parent, standing right there and talking to you even
TaxSrv briefly, trying actually to sense what you're like,
TaxSrv without a serious feeling of responsibility.

Yes, plus, YE flights are always day, VFR, and local (no weather to
run into on a cross-country).

"Bob Fry" wrote:

Yes, plus, YE flights are always day, VFR, and local (no weather
to
run into on a cross-country).

Considerations are narrower than that for our chapter. One
Saturday, we had to turn away everybody, due to marginal weather on
viz. Almost IFR. Come tomorrow on the announced rain date;
forecast good.

Many did, but it turned up delay again until it was 1,300 broken
and clear on the viz. We tried it for a while, but told the ground
bosses this is not good. We're up there at pattern altitude flying
the hastily modified route, to avoid somebody arriving IFR to pop
out the bottom at our field or at a nearby field's ILS. Those few
of us who can with a BOTH button, monitoring unicom and also the
satellite field Approach freq for IFR arrivals. We're not enjoying
this. Many disappointed kids again, but you can't explain why in
simple terms to parents, w/o talking scary-sounding safety issues.
We took names/phone #s to individually fly kids ad hoc on a
selected, great summer evening. The parents really appreciated
that. And most had no idea we recreational flyers treat this stuff
as seriously as the people who pilot their 757s.

Fred F.

"TaxSrv" wrote in message
...
I fiddled with the math on the probable number of Y/E hours flown,
and the few known number of nonserious incidents (something like 3
since 1991) to compute the accident rate/100,000 hours. Having a
Y/E aboard is one of the safest ways to fly.

Cool. But could you elaborate please? How did you calculate the number of
hours flown? What do you mean by nonserious incidents? And how do you know
how many such incidents (and how many serious incidents) there have been, if
there's no comprehensive reporting system in place for them?

The rate is so low

What is the rate?

that it isn't necessary to adjust for the fact that most accidents
occur within a few miles of an airport,

That's a fact? What's its source?

Thanks,
Gary

"TaxSrv" wrote in message
...
Many did, but it turned up delay again until it was 1,300 broken
and clear on the viz. We tried it for a while, but told the ground
bosses this is not good. We're up there at pattern altitude flying
the hastily modified route, to avoid somebody arriving IFR to pop
out the bottom at our field or at a nearby field's ILS. Those few
of us who can with a BOTH button, monitoring unicom and also the
satellite field Approach freq for IFR arrivals. We're not enjoying
this.

Wait, how was it possible to even make the attempt with a 1300' ceiling?
You've said you're based at LNN, right? That's Class E from 700' AGL upward,
and the pattern altitude there is 974' AGL, so with a 1300' ceiling, you'd
have been much closer than 500' to the clouds, which is illegal and
dangerous when flying VFR in controlled airspace.

Many disappointed kids again, but you can't explain why in
simple terms to parents, w/o talking scary-sounding safety issues.

I'm sorry, but withholding "scary-sounding" safety facts from the parents
just isn't right. Passengers (or their parents, if the passengers are
children) should give their informed consent to fly, rather than being
tricked into doing something that's more dangerous than they would agree to
if they were allowed to know the scary truth.

--Gary

My reaction to this activity I didn't really predict until I got
into it. You simply do not take aloft the child of a parent,
standing right there and talking to you even briefly, trying
actually to sense what you're like, without a serious feeling of
responsibility.

Back in 1996 I flew my entire Cub Scout troop, by myself, on Young Eagle
flights. I had *maybe* 200 hours, and I did it in a clapped-out rental
Cherokee 140, two kids at a time, from a little-bitty 2300' x 30'
single-runway strip.

Of course, everything worked out fine, but the feeling of responsibility was
almost overwhelming. I remember taxiing out with two excited kids in the
back, and one nervous parent in the front, running through emergency
procedures in my head and being so tense that I had a headache for hours
afterward. It took a LONG time to fly the whole troop in that manner, and I
was happy but completely wiped out by the end of the day.

I didn't fly YE again until several years later, and then it was Mary and me
doing it as a team, with children of members of Mary's extended family.
What a difference! To be doing flights in a plane you own and maintain,
off a big, multi-runway airport, with people you sort-of know -- with
another pilot -- made for a much more enjoyable event. The pressure and
responsibility were (of course) still there, but to a much lesser degree.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

Gary,

Metar/TAF ceiling are always AGL not MSL. This is something that
we can easily forget. Few weeks ago, we were at KLEX early in the
morning when the ceiling was 600'. With the ILS Rwy 4 DH at 1170',
at first I thought the ceiling was below minimum and decided to wait.
After few hours, the ceiling was still at 600' but the cup of coffee
livened up my brain. I then realized that the DH AGL was 200' and the
ceiling was 600' AGL not MSL so it was a go for us.

Hai Longworth

"Longworth" wrote in message
oups.com...
Gary,

Metar/TAF ceiling are always AGL not MSL. This is something that
we can easily forget.

True, but I wasn't forgetting that. All the other altitudes I mentioned were
explicitly AGL too, for consistency with the ceiling measure.

--Gary

Few weeks ago, we were at KLEX early in the
morning when the ceiling was 600'. With the ILS Rwy 4 DH at 1170',
at first I thought the ceiling was below minimum and decided to wait.
After few hours, the ceiling was still at 600' but the cup of coffee
livened up my brain. I then realized that the DH AGL was 200' and the
ceiling was 600' AGL not MSL so it was a go for us.

Hai Longworth

I didn't fly YE again until several years later, and then it was Mary and me
doing it as a team, with children of members of Mary's extended family.
What a difference! To be doing flights in a plane you own and maintain,
off a big, multi-runway airport, with people you sort-of know -- with
another pilot -- made for a much more enjoyable event. The pressure and
responsibility were (of course) still there, but to a much lesser degree.

Just think how much easier it would have been with a high-wing airplane
and two doors!
:-))