Mid Life Crisis gift to myself, Pilot Training

I'm 48, and time to have me som fun...
Been flying as a passenger since I was 8 months, have had 102 flights on
commercial flights that I can recall ...
Have flown Schweizer 232 sailplanes, and Cessna 172's (not take off or
landings.)
Have played with MS Flight Sim since 1995, and probably have logged over 400
hours of flight on that game....the new ATC versions make it more fun.

I understand flight theory and dynamics, and have felt at home and at ease
while behind the yoke or stick while in the 172 and 232's.

So I looked at flight training, and here west of Toronto at the Guelph
airport, it's about $4500 allowing me to carry one passenger, $7500 to carry
multiple passengers, or $8500 (plus 200 hrs @ $125/hr) for commercial
pilot...(all in Canadian $$$)

So I have time, might as well go for the commercial licence, and have me
some fun...not that it will get me a job by the time I'm done (I'll be 51 -
52 by my training timeline).

Never too late, and since having sex with Jeannie (Barbara Eden) is out of
the question (Hey, she's still hot for 72), I might as well fulfill anpother
dream, eh?

Har,
I certainly don't want to tell you what to do, but here is an
observation. $8500 is a LOT of money. You could certainly use it to get your
commercial license, but I am wondering how useful a commercial license will
be to you. The whole purpose of getting a commercial license is to get a job
with a commercial carrier. Even though you may have a commercial license,
most carriers will not hire anyone who does not have a minimum number of
hours logged IN ADDITION to the minimum numer of hours logged for your
commercial license. This is because of insurance liability. Most commerial
carrier require at least 300 hours or more above the minimum that it takes
for your commercial ticket. By the time that you get your commericial
license, AND the minimum hours logged for insurance coverage, you may well
be in your mid to late 50's. Unfortunately there are not very many carriers
that will hire someone in this age range. I'm not saying you shouldn't do
it, but I'm just wondering if that $8500 could be better used to perhaps
purchase an airplane of your own. You might do a little investigating before
you plunk down a lot of money on a commercial rating, and see just what the
minimum requirements are for employment with a commercial carrier. It's just
something to think about.

Randy L.
--
"When making an emergency off-field landing at night, turn
on the landing lights just prior to touchdown. If you don't
like what you see, then turn off the landing lights."


"HarDeeHarHar" wrote in message
.. .
I'm 48, and time to have me som fun...
Been flying as a passenger since I was 8 months, have had 102 flights on
commercial flights that I can recall ...
Have flown Schweizer 232 sailplanes, and Cessna 172's (not take off or
landings.)
Have played with MS Flight Sim since 1995, and probably have logged over
400 hours of flight on that game....the new ATC versions make it more fun.

I understand flight theory and dynamics, and have felt at home and at ease
while behind the yoke or stick while in the 172 and 232's.

So I looked at flight training, and here west of Toronto at the Guelph
airport, it's about $4500 allowing me to carry one passenger, $7500 to
carry multiple passengers, or $8500 (plus 200 hrs @ $125/hr) for
commercial pilot...(all in Canadian $$$)

So I have time, might as well go for the commercial licence, and have me
some fun...not that it will get me a job by the time I'm done (I'll be
51 - 52 by my training timeline).

Never too late, and since having sex with Jeannie (Barbara Eden) is out of
the question (Hey, she's still hot for 72), I might as well fulfill
anpother dream, eh?

(flight-sim newsgroup trimmed)

"RandyL" wrote in message
...
Har,
I certainly don't want to tell you what to do, but here is an
observation. $8500 is a LOT of money. You could certainly use it to get
your commercial license, but I am wondering how useful a commercial
license will be to you.

Note that in his case, the difference between the Commercial and the
"Multi-passenger" (must be some Canadian thing) is only $1000 CDN.

The whole purpose of getting a commercial license is to get a job with a
commercial carrier.

"The whole purpose"? Not even close.

Yes, many commercially certificated pilots want a job with a commercial
carrier. But there are a lot of jobs involving commercial certification
that don't involve a commercial carrier, most of which are not subject to
the mandatory retirement at 60 rule. Beyond that, many pilots get their
commercial certification without any intention of ever flying for hire.

[...] I'm just wondering if that $8500 could be better used to perhaps
purchase an airplane of your own.

If he spends $8500 on a new airplane (and by the way, $8500 CDN, doesn't get
you much of an airplane...that's ultralight territory, tops...it's not even
enough for a 1/4 share of a Cessna 172).

You might do a little investigating before you plunk down a lot of money
on a commercial rating, and see just what the minimum requirements are for
employment with a commercial carrier. It's just something to think about.

If he has no intention of being employed with a commercial carrier, then the
minimum requirements for doing so are irrelevant. He may have other,
entirely valid, reasons for wanting a Commercial certificate.

Pete

A few observations:

1) You're not talking about $8500 vs $7500. With the added hours you're
talking about $33500 vs $7500. As you said you're not likely to become
a commerical pilot, so why waste $25k (or be constrained by rules on
how to spend it if you're allocating it to going up)?

1) $7500 is quite a bit of money, but less than what it would cost to
do the same in AUS. I have a friend here at work that had his
commerical license. It cost him around AUD35000 about eight years ago
to get his PPL and CPL and then he couldn't get a job. He considers it
wasted (but I disagree with that and told him as much). However the
kicker I think is the minimum to get your PPL is in AUS is something
like AUD12-15k. I think your dollar is worth a little more though.

2) If it's what you want to do, and you have the cash to spare (ie no
family commitments etc. you'd have to neglect) go for it. Do expect it
to be hard work (but that doesn't mean it won't be fun).

3) I'd disagree with the other poster about putting the money towards a
plane. Even $33500 won't go far unless you're talking ultralight. But
what about putting $7500 towards a nice computer, projector, yoke and
pedals, extra monitors and build a home cockpit? Have you looked at the
traffic, scenery and weather addons you can buy or download for free?
That's another option certainly within reach of $7500. It's never going
to be as good as the real thing, but if you're just doing it for fun
you won't have to worry about weather, time of day or night, medicals,
motion sickness, currency of your license. Plus if you crash you don't
die or end up in hospital. Just another option.

4) Do you have to decide right away whether you're going for the
multi-passenger or commercial ticket? I'd put that decision off until
the absolute last minute and do as much as possible of the training and
exam that's common to both. Circumstances both medical and financial
change, and you don't want to be out a lot of money or obligated to do
200hrs unless you have to be.

Bottom line is real world flying's what you want to do go for it. Do it
safely and smartly, have fun, and lots of luck to you!

"HarDeeHarHar" wrote in message
.. .

So I looked at flight training, and here west of Toronto at the Guelph
airport, it's about $4500 allowing me to carry one passenger,

That's called a Recreational Pilot permit...

$7500 to carry multiple passengers,

That's the Private Pilot Licence...

And hopefully you realize that these costs are estimates only,
and usually ends up being more?

or $8500 (plus 200 hrs @ $125/hr) for commercial pilot...(all in Canadian
$$$)

Hopefully you realize that it's not "or", the cost is in *addition* to
the Private Pilot license you already need, so for your commercial
license, youwould be looking at:

$7500+ (private license training)
8500+ (commercial training)
25000 (200 extra hours)
-----------------------------
$41,000+ total

(And again, these are conservative estimates, not set prices.)

So I have time, might as well go for the commercial licence, and
have me some fun...not that it will get me a job by the time I'm
done (I'll be 51 - 52 by my training timeline).

Not only would you need money as well as time, but also please
be aware that for the Commercial rating, you'd need to pass a
class 1 medical, which is stricter than the class 3 that you'd need
for the Private pilot licence.

Jeff Shirton (PP-ASEL)

I want to do it because it's something that I can be proud of, something I
accomplished.
And all for the price of a new SUV....which will turn to rust in 10 years...


"RandyL" wrote in message
...
Har,
I certainly don't want to tell you what to do, but here is an
observation. $8500 is a LOT of money. You could certainly use it to get
your commercial license, but I am wondering how useful a commercial
license will be to you. The whole purpose of getting a commercial license
is to get a job with a commercial carrier. Even though you may have a
commercial license, most carriers will not hire anyone who does not have a
minimum number of hours logged IN ADDITION to the minimum numer of hours
logged for your commercial license. This is because of insurance
liability. Most commerial carrier require at least 300 hours or more above
the minimum that it takes for your commercial ticket. By the time that you
get your commericial license, AND the minimum hours logged for insurance
coverage, you may well be in your mid to late 50's. Unfortunately there
are not very many carriers that will hire someone in this age range. I'm
not saying you shouldn't do it, but I'm just wondering if that $8500 could
be better used to perhaps purchase an airplane of your own. You might do a
little investigating before you plunk down a lot of money on a commercial
rating, and see just what the minimum requirements are for employment with
a commercial carrier. It's just something to think about.

Randy L.
--
"When making an emergency off-field landing at night, turn
on the landing lights just prior to touchdown. If you don't
like what you see, then turn off the landing lights."


"HarDeeHarHar" wrote in message
.. .
I'm 48, and time to have me som fun...
Been flying as a passenger since I was 8 months, have had 102 flights on
commercial flights that I can recall ...
Have flown Schweizer 232 sailplanes, and Cessna 172's (not take off or
landings.)
Have played with MS Flight Sim since 1995, and probably have logged over
400 hours of flight on that game....the new ATC versions make it more
fun.

I understand flight theory and dynamics, and have felt at home and at
ease while behind the yoke or stick while in the 172 and 232's.

So I looked at flight training, and here west of Toronto at the Guelph
airport, it's about $4500 allowing me to carry one passenger, $7500 to
carry multiple passengers, or $8500 (plus 200 hrs @ $125/hr) for
commercial pilot...(all in Canadian $$$)

So I have time, might as well go for the commercial licence, and have me
some fun...not that it will get me a job by the time I'm done (I'll be
51 - 52 by my training timeline).

Never too late, and since having sex with Jeannie (Barbara Eden) is out
of the question (Hey, she's still hot for 72), I might as well fulfill
anpother dream, eh?

As others have noted, you might reconsider pursuing the
multi-passenger and commercial licenses.

Assuming you have the money and the question is how to spend it, you
might try:

- a few long cross-countries once you have your certificate. Can you
get your 1-passenger rating and add on night and controlled airspace?
That would be a help on cross-countries though not required. Anyway
the overnight/several-night cross-country trips are a wonderful
learning and aesthetic experience.

- get endorsements/certificates for tailwheel, acrobatic, seaplanes,
gliders, and so on.

- buy into a partnership and own part of an airplane. I own a small
two-seater and have never regretted it. Well ok for two weeks each
year during the annual I am cussing and swearing but otherwise it's
great.

If you want something to be proud of, reachable, and get a return on your
investment, consider getting your Instructors certificate as well.

So I have time, might as well go for the commercial licence

US rules are different; we can do our training in stages. Can you not
do that in Canada? Train for the one passenger certificate, and then if
you like it, continue the training.

More valuable (in the US for personal flying) than the commercial
certificate is the instrument rating. Although it may be different in
Canada, it is worth looking into.

Jose
--
The price of freedom is... well... freedom.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

I know what you mean, - GO FOR IT - good luck, have a ball!

"HarDeeHarHar" wrote in message
.. .
I want to do it because it's something that I can be proud of, something I
accomplished.
And all for the price of a new SUV....which will turn to rust in 10
years...


"RandyL" wrote in message
...
Har,
I certainly don't want to tell you what to do, but here is an
observation. $8500 is a LOT of money. You could certainly use it to get
your commercial license, but I am wondering how useful a commercial
license will be to you. The whole purpose of getting a commercial license
is to get a job with a commercial carrier. Even though you may have a
commercial license, most carriers will not hire anyone who does not have
a minimum number of hours logged IN ADDITION to the minimum numer of
hours logged for your commercial license. This is because of insurance
liability. Most commerial carrier require at least 300 hours or more
above the minimum that it takes for your commercial ticket. By the time
that you get your commericial license, AND the minimum hours logged for
insurance coverage, you may well be in your mid to late 50's.
Unfortunately there are not very many carriers that will hire someone in
this age range. I'm not saying you shouldn't do it, but I'm just
wondering if that $8500 could be better used to perhaps purchase an
airplane of your own. You might do a little investigating before you
plunk down a lot of money on a commercial rating, and see just what the
minimum requirements are for employment with a commercial carrier. It's
just something to think about.

Randy L.
--
"When making an emergency off-field landing at night, turn
on the landing lights just prior to touchdown. If you don't
like what you see, then turn off the landing lights."


"HarDeeHarHar" wrote in message
.. .
I'm 48, and time to have me som fun...
Been flying as a passenger since I was 8 months, have had 102 flights on
commercial flights that I can recall ...
Have flown Schweizer 232 sailplanes, and Cessna 172's (not take off or
landings.)
Have played with MS Flight Sim since 1995, and probably have logged over
400 hours of flight on that game....the new ATC versions make it more
fun.

I understand flight theory and dynamics, and have felt at home and at
ease while behind the yoke or stick while in the 172 and 232's.

So I looked at flight training, and here west of Toronto at the Guelph
airport, it's about $4500 allowing me to carry one passenger, $7500 to
carry multiple passengers, or $8500 (plus 200 hrs @ $125/hr) for
commercial pilot...(all in Canadian $$$)

So I have time, might as well go for the commercial licence, and have me
some fun...not that it will get me a job by the time I'm done (I'll be
51 - 52 by my training timeline).

Never too late, and since having sex with Jeannie (Barbara Eden) is out
of the question (Hey, she's still hot for 72), I might as well fulfill
anpother dream, eh?