Temporarily removing fuel and replacing it into the same aircraft

Does anyone know of a FAR that prohibits removing fuel, avgas in this
case, and then putting it back into the same plane? The plane is flown
for part 91 service only.

Examples:

1.) The plane is 50 pounds overweight for conditions. 10 gallons is
siphoned out into a clean, single-purpose, approved for gasoline
container. The sealed container is stored in a safe place. 2-3 hours
later, upon completing the trip and returning to the field, I pour it
back into the tank.

2.) I want to calibrate a fuel dipstick, so I remove a gallon at a time
while taking readings. After I read the tank, I return the fuel to the
tank.

I've been told this is a violation. The person who tells me this can't
cite a FAR, and I can't find one in my own search.

B A R R Y wrote:
Does anyone know of a FAR that prohibits removing fuel, avgas in this
case, and then putting it back into the same plane? The plane is
flown for part 91 service only.

Examples:

1.) The plane is 50 pounds overweight for conditions. 10 gallons is
siphoned out into a clean, single-purpose, approved for gasoline
container. The sealed container is stored in a safe place. 2-3
hours later, upon completing the trip and returning to the field, I
pour it back into the tank.

2.) I want to calibrate a fuel dipstick, so I remove a gallon at a
time while taking readings. After I read the tank, I return the fuel
to the tank.

I've been told this is a violation. The person who tells me this
can't cite a FAR, and I can't find one in my own search.

I can't think of ant FAR that could even remotely make what you are wanting
to do a violation.

On Mon, 23 Jul 2007 13:33:28 -0400, B A R R Y
wrote:

Does anyone know of a FAR that prohibits removing fuel, avgas in this
case, and then putting it back into the same plane? The plane is flown
for part 91 service only.

Examples:

1.) The plane is 50 pounds overweight for conditions. 10 gallons is
siphoned out into a clean, single-purpose, approved for gasoline
container. The sealed container is stored in a safe place. 2-3 hours
later, upon completing the trip and returning to the field, I pour it
back into the tank.

2.) I want to calibrate a fuel dipstick, so I remove a gallon at a time
while taking readings. After I read the tank, I return the fuel to the
tank.

I've been told this is a violation. The person who tells me this can't
cite a FAR, and I can't find one in my own search.

First Reaction: If it's okay to use a GATT jar, what would the cutoff
be? Two ounces? A cup? 49 gallons?

Second Reaction: A violation of the National Fire Code will get you
thrown off the airport faster than a FAR violation will. The question
about where the cutoff is can probably be found in the NFC.

Third Reaction: If you're gonna do it anyway, common sense says don't
release a lot of gasoline fumes in an enclosed place and if you don't
KNOW that the transfer equipment is safe from a static electricity
standpoint, DON'T do it. There are faster, less painful ways to die.

Don

Don Tuite wrote:

Second Reaction: A violation of the National Fire Code will get you
thrown off the airport faster than a FAR violation will. The question
about where the cutoff is can probably be found in the NFC.

How much fuel is in your riding mower and other power equipment? Or the
car(s) in your garage? Did I say store it on the airport? How many 5
gallon gas cans are on a typical landscaping or race car trailer?

Third Reaction: If you're gonna do it anyway, common sense says don't
release a lot of gasoline fumes in an enclosed place and if you don't
KNOW that the transfer equipment is safe from a static electricity
standpoint, DON'T do it. There are faster, less painful ways to die.

Thanks. I didn't ask for knee-jerk, flame-war (pun intended) inducing,
chicken little reactions.


If someone can cite a part 43, 91, etc... rule that says fuel removed
from an aircraft with safe and legal defueling methods can't be returned
to the same tank, I'd be very much obliged! ;^)

The FAA does not get into fueling/defueling. At all.




B A R R Y wrote:
Don Tuite wrote:


Second Reaction: A violation of the National Fire Code will get you
thrown off the airport faster than a FAR violation will. The question
about where the cutoff is can probably be found in the NFC.


How much fuel is in your riding mower and other power equipment? Or the
car(s) in your garage? Did I say store it on the airport? How many 5
gallon gas cans are on a typical landscaping or race car trailer?

Third Reaction: If you're gonna do it anyway, common sense says don't
release a lot of gasoline fumes in an enclosed place and if you don't
KNOW that the transfer equipment is safe from a static electricity
standpoint, DON'T do it. There are faster, less painful ways to die.


Thanks. I didn't ask for knee-jerk, flame-war (pun intended) inducing,
chicken little reactions.


If someone can cite a part 43, 91, etc... rule that says fuel removed
from an aircraft with safe and legal defueling methods can't be returned
to the same tank, I'd be very much obliged! ;^)

On Jul 23, 12:33 pm, B A R R Y wrote:
I've been told this is a violation. The person who tells me this can't
cite a FAR, and I can't find one in my own search.

The world is full of 'experts' who will tell you that something is
against the FAR's. When pressed, they will tell you to call the FSDO
if you don't believe them. Those experts can't ever seem to quote the
relevant FAR. They are best ignored.

There is no such regulation in the Part 91 world.

Michael

Michael wrote:
On Jul 23, 12:33 pm, B A R R Y wrote:
I've been told this is a violation. The person who tells me this can't
cite a FAR, and I can't find one in my own search.

The world is full of 'experts' who will tell you that something is
against the FAR's. When pressed, they will tell you to call the FSDO
if you don't believe them. Those experts can't ever seem to quote the
relevant FAR. They are best ignored.

There is no such regulation in the Part 91 world.

Thanks!

I've been searching 91 and 43, both electronically and on paper, but my
43 experience is limited.

The problem in this case, is that the "expert" is related to an airport
manager.

B A R R Y wrote:
Michael wrote:
On Jul 23, 12:33 pm, B A R R Y wrote:
I've been told this is a violation. The person who tells me this
can't cite a FAR, and I can't find one in my own search.

The world is full of 'experts' who will tell you that something is
against the FAR's. When pressed, they will tell you to call the FSDO
if you don't believe them. Those experts can't ever seem to quote
the relevant FAR. They are best ignored.

There is no such regulation in the Part 91 world.

Thanks!

I've been searching 91 and 43, both electronically and on paper, but
my 43 experience is limited.

The problem in this case, is that the "expert" is related to an
airport manager.


So what. If it is against FAA rules tell the manager that if he would kindly
show you the rule you will be more than happy not to do it. If it is aganist
an airport rule then he and you should do the same.

Gig 601XL Builder wrote:

So what. If it is against FAA rules tell the manager that if he would kindly
show you the rule you will be more than happy not to do it. If it is aganist
an airport rule then he and you should do the same.

That's the plan! If there is a FAR against returning the removed fuel
to the aircraft, I'd gladly respect it, without having to be told.
Since my own research turned up nothing, I pick the vast expertise of
knowledge here. G

I like to have my ducks in a row without causing a rub. The manager who
works for the state agency that owns the airport doesn't have single
problem with any of this. The "expert" is a self-employed mechanic,
related to the manager of the FBO who runs the field, and I'd prefer to
continue the good relationship I have with both of them.

Airport rules prohibit storing fuel cans in hangars, so I wouldn't do
that. There is no airport rule against gas cans in or on vehicles, or
fuel transfer tanks, ala Jay's "Grape". Several local pilots are
various sorts of contractors (landscape, tree surgeon, builders, heavy
equipment repair...) and have had many gas and diesel cans in the
parking lot, on business trucks and trailers.

Thanks!

On Jul 23, 12:46 pm, Michael
wrote:
On Jul 23, 12:33 pm, B A R R Y wrote:

I've been told this is a violation. The person who tells me this can't
cite a FAR, and I can't find one in my own search.

The world is full of 'experts' who will tell you that something is
against the FAR's. When pressed, they will tell you to call the FSDO
if you don't believe them. Those experts can't ever seem to quote the
relevant FAR. They are best ignored.

There is no such regulation in the Part 91 world.

Michael


I have to agree with Michael, there are a lot of experts who know
rules that don't exist.

FSDO's aren't the experts and are often the source of such myths.

Locally we have had a FSDO inspector tell us we could not carry
passengers while towing gliders. He reversed this after I inquired to
he and is boss as to where this rule came from.

Recently another FSDO inspector told a local 141 flight school that
all the gas caps on their aircraft needed to be painted Red. I am
still trying to figure out which hat or book he might have pulled that
rule out of. Maybe someone here knows?

Brian
CFIIG/ASEL