Piper Commanche vs Money 201

On Fri, 21 Nov 2003 23:16:33 -0800, Jeff wrote:

I know a guy with a comanche 260, really nice plane, fast, good useful load.
his will do 160 kts.
Heck my 200 HP Turbo Arrow III typically does 150-155 kts.

I guess these claims are correct. I was referring to a no tail wind
situation!!!


Jeff
http://www.turboarrow3.com


Stu Gotts wrote:

On Fri, 21 Nov 2003 17:23:27 -0600, "O. Sami Saydjari"
wrote:

I am looking at buying one of two planes: a 1978 Mooney M20J or a 1965
Piper Commanche PA-24-260. I have test driven both and I like the
handling of both. Both are about the same price. The avionics in the
Mooney are slightly better. This is a tough choice.

(1) Is there anyone out there that has flown both airplanes extensively
and can give me pros and cons of each from their perspective?

(2) Is there any other plane with similar price/performance capabilities
(cruise at better than 160nts, 750+ range) in the same price range
($75K-$100K) that I should consider?

(3) I heard Mooney is teetering on bankruptcy. Is this a real big
downside? Has anyone experienced owning a plane with a manufacturer
went bankrupt. Do parts become impossible to find?

-Sami

1. Bonanza - there is no substitute.

2. Those speeds are vaporware, you'll never see them from either
machine.

3. Mooney seems to be emerging from their financial troubles, and
believe it or not, may own Beechcraft soon. Comanche parts are
becoming a bit difficult to find and added to the fact that the
aircraft is no being produced worries me. Also, a good Comanche
mechanic is a must if you want to keep the aircraft in the air. Good
luck.

In article , Stu Gotts
wrote:

On Fri, 21 Nov 2003 23:16:33 -0800, Jeff wrote:

I know a guy with a comanche 260, really nice plane, fast, good useful
load.
his will do 160 kts.
Heck my 200 HP Turbo Arrow III typically does 150-155 kts.

I guess these claims are correct. I was referring to a no tail wind
situation!!!

well, if we can talk about tailwinds, then my cherokee 140 is
a 155kt bird.

--
Bob Noel

Stu Gotts wrote:


I guess these claims are correct. I was referring to a no tail wind
situation!!!

So are we. Actually, to be precise in my case, the average speed seen
by flying reciprocal courses to factor wind out of the equation I don't
see any reason to hang an after market mod on the airframe if it doesn't
demonstrate a performance improvement, so if something goes on and
doesn't deliver it comes off again (rudder gap seals come to mind).

It's perfectly possible to make a PA24-250/260 cruise at or above
200MPH, but doing so requires tossing the factory cowl and demands the
Vne stabilator mod that most people haven't bothered to perform.

I am referring to no tail wind also.
My t-arrow gets 150-155 KTAS - Not ground speed, and this is at 65% power. 3 days
ago, at 14,000 ft, I had a TAS of 160 kts and a GS of 183 kts.

Everyone I know who flies a t-arrow flight plans at least 150 kts.

Jeff
http://www.turboarrow3.com


Stu Gotts wrote:

On Fri, 21 Nov 2003 23:16:33 -0800, Jeff wrote:

I know a guy with a comanche 260, really nice plane, fast, good useful load.
his will do 160 kts.
Heck my 200 HP Turbo Arrow III typically does 150-155 kts.

I guess these claims are correct. I was referring to a no tail wind
situation!!!

Jeff
http://www.turboarrow3.com


Stu Gotts wrote:

On Fri, 21 Nov 2003 17:23:27 -0600, "O. Sami Saydjari"
wrote:

I am looking at buying one of two planes: a 1978 Mooney M20J or a 1965
Piper Commanche PA-24-260. I have test driven both and I like the
handling of both. Both are about the same price. The avionics in the
Mooney are slightly better. This is a tough choice.

(1) Is there anyone out there that has flown both airplanes extensively
and can give me pros and cons of each from their perspective?

(2) Is there any other plane with similar price/performance capabilities
(cruise at better than 160nts, 750+ range) in the same price range
($75K-$100K) that I should consider?

(3) I heard Mooney is teetering on bankruptcy. Is this a real big
downside? Has anyone experienced owning a plane with a manufacturer
went bankrupt. Do parts become impossible to find?

-Sami

1. Bonanza - there is no substitute.

2. Those speeds are vaporware, you'll never see them from either
machine.

3. Mooney seems to be emerging from their financial troubles, and
believe it or not, may own Beechcraft soon. Comanche parts are
becoming a bit difficult to find and added to the fact that the
aircraft is no being produced worries me. Also, a good Comanche
mechanic is a must if you want to keep the aircraft in the air. Good
luck.

Okay, I certainly believe you! ;-)

On Sat, 22 Nov 2003 13:22:40 -0800, Jeff wrote:

I am referring to no tail wind also.
My t-arrow gets 150-155 KTAS - Not ground speed, and this is at 65% power. 3 days
ago, at 14,000 ft, I had a TAS of 160 kts and a GS of 183 kts.

Everyone I know who flies a t-arrow flight plans at least 150 kts.

Jeff
http://www.turboarrow3.com


Stu Gotts wrote:

On Fri, 21 Nov 2003 23:16:33 -0800, Jeff wrote:

I know a guy with a comanche 260, really nice plane, fast, good useful load.
his will do 160 kts.
Heck my 200 HP Turbo Arrow III typically does 150-155 kts.

I guess these claims are correct. I was referring to a no tail wind
situation!!!

Jeff
http://www.turboarrow3.com


Stu Gotts wrote:

On Fri, 21 Nov 2003 17:23:27 -0600, "O. Sami Saydjari"
wrote:

I am looking at buying one of two planes: a 1978 Mooney M20J or a 1965
Piper Commanche PA-24-260. I have test driven both and I like the
handling of both. Both are about the same price. The avionics in the
Mooney are slightly better. This is a tough choice.

(1) Is there anyone out there that has flown both airplanes extensively
and can give me pros and cons of each from their perspective?

(2) Is there any other plane with similar price/performance capabilities
(cruise at better than 160nts, 750+ range) in the same price range
($75K-$100K) that I should consider?

(3) I heard Mooney is teetering on bankruptcy. Is this a real big
downside? Has anyone experienced owning a plane with a manufacturer
went bankrupt. Do parts become impossible to find?

-Sami

1. Bonanza - there is no substitute.

2. Those speeds are vaporware, you'll never see them from either
machine.

3. Mooney seems to be emerging from their financial troubles, and
believe it or not, may own Beechcraft soon. Comanche parts are
becoming a bit difficult to find and added to the fact that the
aircraft is no being produced worries me. Also, a good Comanche
mechanic is a must if you want to keep the aircraft in the air. Good
luck.

Your more then welcome to see the performance specs for a T-arrow, they are here
http://www.turboarrow3.com/newplane/specs.html

those are the book values tho and I havnt seen their speeds yet but I only fly at
65% power settings.

Jeff
http://www.turboarrow3.com

Stu Gotts wrote:

On Fri, 21 Nov 2003 23:16:33 -0800, Jeff wrote:

I know a guy with a comanche 260, really nice plane, fast, good useful load.
his will do 160 kts.
Heck my 200 HP Turbo Arrow III typically does 150-155 kts.

I guess these claims are correct. I was referring to a no tail wind
situation!!!

Jeff
http://www.turboarrow3.com


Stu Gotts wrote:

On Fri, 21 Nov 2003 17:23:27 -0600, "O. Sami Saydjari"
wrote:

I am looking at buying one of two planes: a 1978 Mooney M20J or a 1965
Piper Commanche PA-24-260. I have test driven both and I like the
handling of both. Both are about the same price. The avionics in the
Mooney are slightly better. This is a tough choice.

(1) Is there anyone out there that has flown both airplanes extensively
and can give me pros and cons of each from their perspective?

(2) Is there any other plane with similar price/performance capabilities
(cruise at better than 160nts, 750+ range) in the same price range
($75K-$100K) that I should consider?

(3) I heard Mooney is teetering on bankruptcy. Is this a real big
downside? Has anyone experienced owning a plane with a manufacturer
went bankrupt. Do parts become impossible to find?

-Sami

1. Bonanza - there is no substitute.

2. Those speeds are vaporware, you'll never see them from either
machine.

3. Mooney seems to be emerging from their financial troubles, and
believe it or not, may own Beechcraft soon. Comanche parts are
becoming a bit difficult to find and added to the fact that the
aircraft is no being produced worries me. Also, a good Comanche
mechanic is a must if you want to keep the aircraft in the air. Good
luck.

"Jeff" wrote in message
...
Your more then welcome to see the performance specs for a T-arrow, they
are here
http://www.turboarrow3.com/newplane/specs.html

those are the book values tho and I havnt seen their speeds yet but I only
fly at
65% power settings.

Jeff
http://www.turboarrow3.com

Have you/are you going to install GAMI turbo injectors in that thing?

I have GamiJectors, wing root fairings, gap seals installed already.
a week ago I had new avionics installed. garmin 430, audio panel, garmin
x-ponder and some other stuff. Wanted the MX20 but that will have to wait
another 6 months.

The gamiJectors say you can run lean of peak, but when I tried it, I seemed to
lose some airspeed, so I lean to 12 gph which is just a tiny bit ROP, thats
seems to be the best mixture setting for me.

"Tom S." wrote:

"Jeff" wrote in message
...
Your more then welcome to see the performance specs for a T-arrow, they
are here
http://www.turboarrow3.com/newplane/specs.html

those are the book values tho and I havnt seen their speeds yet but I only
fly at
65% power settings.

Jeff
http://www.turboarrow3.com

Have you/are you going to install GAMI turbo injectors in that thing?

Ahem!!!!


On Sat, 22 Nov 2003 16:10:07 -0800, Jeff wrote:

I have GamiJectors, wing root fairings, gap seals installed already.
a week ago I had new avionics installed. garmin 430, audio panel, garmin
x-ponder and some other stuff. Wanted the MX20 but that will have to wait
another 6 months.

The gamiJectors say you can run lean of peak, but when I tried it, I seemed to
lose some airspeed, so I lean to 12 gph which is just a tiny bit ROP, thats
seems to be the best mixture setting for me.

"Tom S." wrote:

"Jeff" wrote in message
...
Your more then welcome to see the performance specs for a T-arrow, they
are here
http://www.turboarrow3.com/newplane/specs.html

those are the book values tho and I havnt seen their speeds yet but I only
fly at
65% power settings.

Jeff
http://www.turboarrow3.com

Have you/are you going to install GAMI turbo injectors in that thing?

"Jeff" wrote:
The gamiJectors say you can run lean of peak, but when I tried it, I
seemed to lose some airspeed,...

Which you should. LOP is for fuel efficiency and cool CHT's; it does not
produce peak power.

... so I lean to 12 gph which is just a
tiny bit ROP, that seems to be the best mixture setting for me.

That's close to peak power.
--
Dan
C172RG at BFM