Pre-buy Inspection

When you sober up and read the posts you would discover that the plane
has just come out of an annual. JK

Lynne Miller wrote:

Truthfully, a good pre-buy is actually an annual inspection. I would
worry about a $500 pre-buy. Unless you truly tear into the aircraft,
you don't know what you're getting into. If it's at all close by,
perhaps you could work out a deal to somehow pro-rate the annual
inspection, and just get it done. That way, you will at least have the
peace of mind to know exactly the shape the aircraft is in.

As an aside, I am quite drunk right now. :-) It's fun to hang out at
home, drink beers, and just relax.

Lynne

Jon Kraus wrote in message . ..

My new partner and I are looking at a 1975 Mooney M20C. It is a nicely
upgraded IFR plane with a 400 hour O-360 engine. It is a rather high
time airplane (7000) hours and the price reflects this fact. It is being
sold by the owner of the FBO we fly out of for one of his friends. They
just finished up an annual inspection on it.

My IFR instructor has owned Mooneys in the past and even had the M20C
for years. He suggested that we fly the plane to Byerly Aviation in
Peoria IL (a little over an hour flight from Indianapolis) and have them
do the pre-buy. He said it would probably cost in the $500.00 range. My
partner and I think it is a good idea too. We are both buying our first
plane and think the money would be well spent.

One of the cylinders has a compression of 62 while the others are in the
70's. This concerns me even though it is within tolerances. Of course we
would hate to buy something that needed immediate major engine work. The
plane has not flown much for the past 2 years so I am wondering if after
flying the thing a while if the compression might come back some
(probably wishful thinking I know).

I am interested in opinions or experiences in first plane purchases.
Experience with Byerly Aviation. Or comments on the engine situation I
described. Thanks!!

Jon Kraus
PP-ASEL-IA
Student aircraft purchaser

"Jon Kraus" wrote in message
...
When you sober up and read the posts you would discover that the plane
has just come out of an annual. JK

IMHO, an annual inspection done (paid for) by the seller is worthless with
respect to pre-buy inspection.

I base this on personal experience, having bought a plane that had just had
an annual inspection done, and yet which still had significant problems,
including safety issues.

When buying an airplane, you *cannot* delegate ANY inspection of the
aircraft to the seller or anyone hired by the seller. The only way to know
for sure the condition of the airplane is to inspect it yourself or have
someone working for you inspect it. If you decide that an inspection the
depth of an annual inspection is warranted, then so be it...even if the
airplane has just had an annual inspection by someone else, you'll have to
pay someone to do it all over again.

The fact that the plane in question here has just come out of its annual
inspection is meaningless to the buyer.

Pete

I agree with you 100%. Matter of fact the seller just informed my FBO
that he will not allow the plane to inspected by Byerly Aviation who is
a well respected Mooney shop. I think we are going to pass on this one.

Jon Kraus
PP-ASEL-IA
Student airplane purchaser

Peter Duniho wrote:
"Jon Kraus" wrote in message
...

When you sober up and read the posts you would discover that the plane
has just come out of an annual. JK


IMHO, an annual inspection done (paid for) by the seller is worthless with
respect to pre-buy inspection.

I base this on personal experience, having bought a plane that had just had
an annual inspection done, and yet which still had significant problems,
including safety issues.

When buying an airplane, you *cannot* delegate ANY inspection of the
aircraft to the seller or anyone hired by the seller. The only way to know
for sure the condition of the airplane is to inspect it yourself or have
someone working for you inspect it. If you decide that an inspection the
depth of an annual inspection is warranted, then so be it...even if the
airplane has just had an annual inspection by someone else, you'll have to
pay someone to do it all over again.

The fact that the plane in question here has just come out of its annual
inspection is meaningless to the buyer.

Pete

In article , Jon Kraus
wrote:

I agree with you 100%. Matter of fact the seller just informed my FBO
that he will not allow the plane to inspected by Byerly Aviation who is
a well respected Mooney shop. I think we are going to pass on this one.

something to consider: The seller might not like the shop because
of a bad experience. I know one A&P that I won't let touch my
airplane ever again (but he's not in the IL area).

--
Bob Noel
Seen on Kerry's campaign airplane: "the real deal"
oh yeah baby.

Bob Noel wrote in message ...
In article , Jon Kraus
wrote:

I agree with you 100%. Matter of fact the seller just informed my FBO
that he will not allow the plane to inspected by Byerly Aviation who is
a well respected Mooney shop. I think we are going to pass on this one.

something to consider: The seller might not like the shop because
of a bad experience. I know one A&P that I won't let touch my
airplane ever again (but he's not in the IL area).

Friend of mine just sold his 172. Before the buyer took it to pre-buy,
he (my friend) had his preferred mechanic do a compression check. One
cylinder was OK (mid 60s) rest in the low 70s. The prospective buyer
takes it to his guy, report comes back, one cylinder shot (58), two
questionable (61-63) and one in the high 60s. None of the results
matched up with the previous comp check. Buyer sez, "I want $2500 off
because I'm going to have to replace three jugs instead of one like
you said." My friend says, OK, how's about we take the plane together,
tomorrow, to a third shop on the same field as your guy and get it
checked there. Buyer says OK, they fly over there, and mechanic #3
does the check with the buyer over his shoulder. Everything within
1psi of the check my friend's mechanic did. Buyer got half his money
back from his (former) mechanic and bought the plane.

If it's a reputable, well-known place, I'd ask the guy for an
explanation of why he won't let you take it there. If the deal looks
good otherwise it might be worth trying to salvage.

-cwk.

Great advise... As in any business there are those that would take
advantage of others. That is not how I live my life but hey I'm the one
that has to live with "the guy in the mirror". The way that this
situation went down was that the seller didn't give an explaination as
to why he didn't want the pre-buy done at Byerly. As a side note the
sellers good friend was going to go with us to the pre-buy to overse
things.

To my partner and I it just is not worth the hassle of trying to figure
out the reason(s) for the sellers decision. I accept that. We have
decided to get our deposit back and keep on looking. There are many
planes out there and frankly it would have been an odd situation to buy
the first on we looked at. I apprecate everyones posts. Thanks !!

Jon Kraus
PP-ASEL-IA
Student airplane purchaser

C Kingsbury wrote:
Bob Noel wrote in message ...

In article , Jon Kraus
wrote:


I agree with you 100%. Matter of fact the seller just informed my FBO
that he will not allow the plane to inspected by Byerly Aviation who is
a well respected Mooney shop. I think we are going to pass on this one.

something to consider: The seller might not like the shop because
of a bad experience. I know one A&P that I won't let touch my
airplane ever again (but he's not in the IL area).


Friend of mine just sold his 172. Before the buyer took it to pre-buy,
he (my friend) had his preferred mechanic do a compression check. One
cylinder was OK (mid 60s) rest in the low 70s. The prospective buyer
takes it to his guy, report comes back, one cylinder shot (58), two
questionable (61-63) and one in the high 60s. None of the results
matched up with the previous comp check. Buyer sez, "I want $2500 off
because I'm going to have to replace three jugs instead of one like
you said." My friend says, OK, how's about we take the plane together,
tomorrow, to a third shop on the same field as your guy and get it
checked there. Buyer says OK, they fly over there, and mechanic #3
does the check with the buyer over his shoulder. Everything within
1psi of the check my friend's mechanic did. Buyer got half his money
back from his (former) mechanic and bought the plane.

If it's a reputable, well-known place, I'd ask the guy for an
explanation of why he won't let you take it there. If the deal looks
good otherwise it might be worth trying to salvage.

-cwk.

"Jon Kraus" wrote in message
...
Great advise... As in any business there are those that would take
advantage of others.

To my partner and I it just is not worth the hassle of trying to figure
out the reason(s) for the sellers decision. I accept that. We have
decided to get our deposit back and keep on looking. There are many
planes out there and frankly it would have been an odd situation to buy
the first on we looked at. I apprecate everyones posts. Thanks !!

Jon Kraus

Good choice. When something does not feel right, it isn't.

I do agree with Jim W's opinion about a pre buy inspection. It should be
much more in depth than an annual. Find out what "might" have to be
replaced in the next couple/few years, vs. an annual telling you what "has"
to be replaced, right now. Also, take the time to get AD compliance well
researched, and title checked.

But you knew that, already, right? G
--
Jim in NC

Jon Kraus wrote:

When you sober up and read the posts you would discover that the plane
has just come out of an annual.

You still want to have an inspection performed to the standards of an annual
inspection by a mechanic you trust. Sellers have been known to obtain a
"pencil-whipped" annual when they know they intend to sell the plane in the near
future.

George Patterson
If you want to know God's opinion of money, just look at the people
he gives it to.