Insurance - don't believe the first broker you call

Michael wrote:

I could tell you the particular agencies, but it wouldn't do you any
good (unless you have this specific issue - low time pilot in
expensive Bonanza - in which case email me). There's no real
consistency. One company will write one operation but decline
another, and another company does just the opposite. It's not like
automotive insurance, where there are standard tables. Aviation
insurance is very much judgment based, and judgment varies.

Why would the agent - which doesn't issue the actual insurance, as I
understand that business - ever turn away business if someone to write the
policy can be found? Something sounds off, here, as if we (outside the
insurance business {8^) are missing a part of the puzzle.

- Andrew

Andrew Gideon wrote:

Michael wrote:

I could tell you the particular agencies, but it wouldn't do you any
good (unless you have this specific issue - low time pilot in
expensive Bonanza - in which case email me). There's no real
consistency. One company will write one operation but decline
another, and another company does just the opposite. It's not like
automotive insurance, where there are standard tables. Aviation
insurance is very much judgment based, and judgment varies.

Why would the agent - which doesn't issue the actual insurance, as I
understand that business - ever turn away business if someone to write the
policy can be found? Something sounds off, here, as if we (outside the
insurance business {8^) are missing a part of the puzzle.

No kidding. Particularly after reading that you should not submit an
insurance bid request to more than one agent since "they all use the same
underwriters". Recently I submitted one to Avemco and immediately got an
email saying they wouldn't cover. Falcon came back with a bid on the same
coverage request within a half day.

No kidding. Particularly after reading that you should not submit an
insurance bid request to more than one agent since "they all use the same
underwriters". Recently I submitted one to Avemco and immediately got an
email saying they wouldn't cover. Falcon came back with a bid on the same
coverage request within a half day.

Avemco isn't an agent. Avemco is a direct insurer. They aren't talking
to anybody but themselves. An independent broker will shop your quote
(potentially) to several underwriters.

Andrew Gideon wrote:


Why would the agent - which doesn't issue the actual insurance, as I
understand that business - ever turn away business if someone to write the
policy can be found? Something sounds off, here, as if we (outside the
insurance business {8^) are missing a part of the puzzle.

Avemco writes its own policies. In addition, AOPA is essentially a broker that deals with only one
company; I think EAA also works that way. So the guy contacts one of these three for his first
quote. For his second quote, he either deals with another of these three or contacts a real broker
(who then calls every other company).

George Patterson

Andrew Gideon wrote
Why would the agent - which doesn't issue the actual insurance, as I
understand that business - ever turn away business if someone to write the
policy can be found? Something sounds off, here, as if we (outside the
insurance business {8^) are missing a part of the puzzle.

I know we are missing a part of the puzzle. I don't know what it is.

But I most certainly do know that brokers sometimes make their own
decisions about what's right. I know that when Tina bought her
Starduster, she had a very difficult time getting the insurance
company to approve an instructor - or so she thought. In reality, the
broker never even submitted those names to the insurance company. I
only found that out after that particular broker died.

In this case, the first broker wasn't turning away business. He
convinced the owner to have the airplane insured with him, with me as
the named pilot, and keep flying rentals until he could be named. He
was not terribly happy when I found another solution and he lost the
business.

Michael

Michael wrote:
Andrew Gideon wrote
Why would the agent - which doesn't issue the actual insurance, as I
understand that business - ever turn away business if someone to write the
policy can be found? Something sounds off, here, as if we (outside the
insurance business {8^) are missing a part of the puzzle.

I know we are missing a part of the puzzle. I don't know what it is.

I think what's missing is that you (the editorial you) think the
broker is working for you, but in reality he's working for himself.
Why bust his butt researching a bid on a difficult situation when for
the same amount of time and effort he can close two simple deals?

Brokers lie, just like everybody else. A few years back, I got a
renewal notice from my boat insurance broker. The policy quoted was
with a different company than I had before. There were some specifics
of the old coverage that I liked so I asked them to quote a renewal
with the old company. I was told that the old company had canceled my
coverage and would not renew me.

I was ****ed. I had never been late with a payment, and had never
made any claims. What possible reason could they have for cancelling
me? So I called the insurance company directly. What I found out
was:

1) They had no problem with me as a policyholder and would welcome my
renewal business. They were even willing to increase my coverage.

2) My broker was no longer representing that company, and *that's* why
the broker couldn't quote me a policy from them. The didn't want
to tell me this, so they lied and said it was the insurance
company's fault.

I asked the insurance company for the name of another broker in the
area that represented them. I called up that broker, told them what
policy I wanted and who I wanted it from, and that was that. All I
needed to do was send them a letter stating that I was withdrawing the
first broker as my representitive. This is standard insurance
industry stuff; a company won't quote a policy to a broker if another
broker already has that account. In theory, it keeps brokers from
poaching each other's customers, but in practice it really just makes
it hard for customers to get competitive bids.

(Roy Smith) wrote
I know we are missing a part of the puzzle. I don't know what it is.

I think what's missing is that you (the editorial you) think the
broker is working for you, but in reality he's working for himself.
Why bust his butt researching a bid on a difficult situation when for
the same amount of time and effort he can close two simple deals?

I like that explanation. It is consistent with my experience, and it
does not resort to conspiracy or malice to explain that which is
adequately explained by simple venality and laziness.

So I guess the take-home lesson is that if you don't get an answer you
like, keep calling around for someone who is hungry to get your
business. Of course that's exactly what the guys who write the
insurance columns tell you not to do, but aren't they the guys who
work for the larger, more established brokerages that aren't hungry
who stand to lose the most if everyone starts doing this?

Michael