"Interesting" wind yesterday

"Jim" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 09 Mar 2005 14:58:38 GMT, "Mike Rapoport"
wrote:


"Morgans" wrote in message
...

"Mike Rapoport" wrote

I always thought that the "coffin corner" was where stall speed met the
Mach
limit. I didn't think that it even applied to non-jet aircraft.

Mike

No, I think the post above yours got it pretty much right..Vne is
significant, in that it demonstrates itself by nasty things like
flutter,
or
control reversal. Pull back on the stick to maneuver, or slow down, and
stall, or at least buffet like hell.

It is true, however, that it is pretty tough for a non jet aircraft to
get
to the coffin corner. The Exxon tiger (can't think of the guy's name)
that
has been trying to get the piston altitude record, has said that he is
really close to getting into coffin corner.
--
Jim in NC



I've never heard of Vne being related to TAS, only IAS. It makes no sense
to me. Could you provide a reference?

Mike
MU-2



I'm not sure this is addressed to me, but just in case it is:

I guess the notion about Vne as a TAS is that Vne may be specified for
a given aircraft as an airspeed that depends on altitude. I guess it
could as easily be specified as an IAS at sea level and gross weight,
with a written notice to the pilot that Vne would then be at a lower
IAS as altitude increases. Does this make any sense?

Yes and no. What you are describing is Mmo which is the limiting Mach
number. It is not Vne. Vne is a fixed mark on the airspeed indicator and,
as such, doesn't move. Mmo is a red "barber pole" on the airspeed indicator
which moves down as altitude increases.

Mike
MU-2

On Wed, 09 Mar 2005 16:29:46 GMT, "Mike Rapoport"
wrote:


"Jim" wrote in message
.. .
On Wed, 09 Mar 2005 14:58:38 GMT, "Mike Rapoport"
wrote:


"Morgans" wrote in message
...

"Mike Rapoport" wrote

I always thought that the "coffin corner" was where stall speed met the
Mach
limit. I didn't think that it even applied to non-jet aircraft.

Mike

No, I think the post above yours got it pretty much right..Vne is
significant, in that it demonstrates itself by nasty things like
flutter,
or
control reversal. Pull back on the stick to maneuver, or slow down, and
stall, or at least buffet like hell.

It is true, however, that it is pretty tough for a non jet aircraft to
get
to the coffin corner. The Exxon tiger (can't think of the guy's name)
that
has been trying to get the piston altitude record, has said that he is
really close to getting into coffin corner.
--
Jim in NC



I've never heard of Vne being related to TAS, only IAS. It makes no sense
to me. Could you provide a reference?

Mike
MU-2



I'm not sure this is addressed to me, but just in case it is:

I guess the notion about Vne as a TAS is that Vne may be specified for
a given aircraft as an airspeed that depends on altitude. I guess it
could as easily be specified as an IAS at sea level and gross weight,
with a written notice to the pilot that Vne would then be at a lower
IAS as altitude increases. Does this make any sense?

Yes and no. What you are describing is Mmo which is the limiting Mach
number. It is not Vne. Vne is a fixed mark on the airspeed indicator and,
as such, doesn't move. Mmo is a red "barber pole" on the airspeed indicator
which moves down as altitude increases.

Mike
MU-2


Well, yes Vne is marked on the ASI, and as such a mark it does not
move.

On the other hand, for several of the gliders I fly the manufacturers
make a point in the POH of directing the pilot to reduce the marked
Vne as flight altitude increases.

So I take the marked Vne as relating to sea level and adjust it
downward at increasing altitudes.