Cable break recovery spin entry... as previously discussed

I have never been in that predicament. Never seen a cable break
or lost power at below 200 ft or the tow rope on aero tow.
I do have 1000s of hours and acro time.

If I would want to land downwind on the runway I was taking off
I could be inclined to just kick in full rudder, and make the 180 Turn
via a "Hammerhead" I think it is called a "Kehre" in German, or a
"Turn? There would be mostly rudder work required, some back preasure
on coming out of a dive following the wingover, which is really half a
spin. Has anyone ever seen that done? Actually, come to think of it, I
have, in an airshow, a long time ago in a clipped wing Cub.

I will have to try at altitude, what will need more altitude to
recover.

DB

Pushing over forward very hard after cable break, you could get into a
negative flight regime, possibly into an inverted spin?



Don Johnstone wrote:
At 21:06 01 July 2005, wrote:
Yeah, I tried a 'yaw string' AoA setup, and while it
did show AoA, it
was extremely sensitive to yaw, and wasn't really in
the correct
position to help a pilot while thermalling or during
landing. Plus the
range from 'cruise' to 'min sink' to 'too slow' wasn't
very big (on my
LS6, using about 8 inch long 'AoA strings') - less
than 2 inches, if I
remember right, and the ends are always moving making
holding a
particular AoA a bit problematical.

Plus one of the strings (the upwind one, obviously)
was always getting
caught in the canopy...

Heck, JJ, I figure that since the F-4 came equipped
with both a real
live mil-spec yaw string (there is actually a hole
in front of the
windscreen for the string to exit after being tied
off inside the nose
- and a black stripe painted in front of the canopy
for reference) and
a really nice visual and aural AoA system, we should
have the same
thing in a glider.

An aural 'fast - on speed - SLOW' AoA tone that would
replace the audio
vario when the gear is down would be nice...

JJ, it was 3 to 8 units until the jet started to fly
again - pointy end
first. Otherwise, the F-4 departure bold face was
(I think...) 'STICK
- FORWARD, AILERONS AND RUDDER - NEUTRAL, IF NOT RECOVERED
MAINTAIN
FULL FORWARD STICK AND DEPLOY DRAG CHUTE'

And I think the the spin recovery bold face was: 'STICK
- MAINTAIN FULL
FORWARD, AILERONS - FULL WITH SPIN (TURN NEEDLE), AIRCRAFT
UNLOADED -
AILERONS NEUTRAL'

Departures were interesting, but spins were a bad thing!

Off to fly!

Kirk

Differs from the SEPECAT Jaguar where the action is
much simpler. SEIZE BLACK AND YELLOW HANDLE, PULL HARD
:-)

On 1 Jul 2005 22:00:34 -0700, "soarski" wrote:


If I would want to land downwind on the runway I was taking off
I could be inclined to just kick in full rudder, and make the 180 Turn
via a "Hammerhead" I think it is called a "Kehre" in German, or a
"Turn? There would be mostly rudder work required, some back preasure
on coming out of a dive following the wingover, which is really half a
spin. Has anyone ever seen that done? Actually, come to think of it, I
have, in an airshow, a long time ago in a clipped wing Cub.

Jmmm... I never ever heard of such a maneuvre. The closer to the
ground, the more important it is to keep the yaw string centered.
Kicking in full rudder is regarded as censored.

We simply fly a 180 degrees turn at the end of the runway.



Pushing over forward very hard after cable break, you could get into a
negative flight regime, possibly into an inverted spin?

No. Not even if you puished the stick to the forward stop.

Bye
Andreas

Hi Tom

Just because the gilder is at a 40 to 50 degree nose up attitude with respect to
the ground does not mean it has the energy for a stall turn.

There was a recent fatality in New Zealand where someone inadvertently tried
this. Assume you were joking, but in case you were serious, please feel free to
try it - the outcome would be merely predictable, if a little sad. Since I live
nearly 9 000 miles away I am confident you will not impact on my personal safety...

Bruce

soarski wrote:
I have never been in that predicament. Never seen a cable break
or lost power at below 200 ft or the tow rope on aero tow.
I do have 1000s of hours and acro time.

SNIP

MAINTAIN
FULL FORWARD STICK AND DEPLOY DRAG CHUTE'

And I think the the spin recovery bold face was: 'STICK
- MAINTAIN FULL
FORWARD, AILERONS - FULL WITH SPIN (TURN NEEDLE), AIRCRAFT
UNLOADED -
AILERONS NEUTRAL'

Departures were interesting, but spins were a bad thing!

Off to fly!

Kirk

Differs from the SEPECAT Jaguar where the action is
much simpler. SEIZE BLACK AND YELLOW HANDLE, PULL HARD
:-)




--
Bruce Greeff
Std Cirrus #57
I'm no-T at the address above.

"soarski" wrote in message
oups.com...
I have never been in that predicament. Never seen a cable break
or lost power at below 200 ft or the tow rope on aero tow.

Been lucky so far?

I do have 1000s of hours and acro time.

If I would want to land downwind on the runway I was taking off
I could be inclined to just kick in full rudder, and make the 180 Turn
via a "Hammerhead" I think it is called a "Kehre" in German, or a
"Turn? There would be mostly rudder work required, some back preasure
on coming out of a dive following the wingover, which is really half a
spin. Has anyone ever seen that done? Actually, come to think of it, I
have, in an airshow, a long time ago in a clipped wing Cub.

D00d. A hammerhead works on a verticle up / down line at zero G. Coming of a
cable break you are still only at about 30-40 degrees nose up. Do you think
you would have enough speed to make it to a verticle up? I doubt it, usually
the entry speed for a hammerhead is fairly high, right? If you try to do a
hammerhead on a, say 45 degree up, I'm not sure how /if it could work - I've
never seen it done, I assume there is a reason. You would have to keep
pushing to stay at 0 G I think. I guess it could be entertaining to try if
you have some altitude under your butt.

You could attempt a kinda chandelle like turn, but you are starting out nose
high, low speed, and straight ahead. It would take a lot of forward stick to
keep the G loading below 1 throughout the manouver I would think. Buy the
time you get turned around, you would likely end up pointing way down. eh?


I will have to try at altitude, what will need more altitude to
recover.


That sounds like a good idea. Don't forget the 'chute.

--
Geoff
the sea hawk at wow way d0t com
remove the spaces and do the obvious substitutions to reply by mail
Spell checking is left as an excersise for the reader.

In article ,
"Capt. Geoffry Thorpe" The Sea Hawk at wow way d0t com wrote:

You could attempt a kinda chandelle like turn, but you are starting out nose
high, low speed, and straight ahead. It would take a lot of forward stick to
keep the G loading below 1 throughout the manouver I would think.

This doesn't make sense. The G loading will stay appropriate to your
current speed at all times as long as the stick is anywhere except hard
back. Above 1, below 1, doesn't matter. Angle of attack is what
matters, and the AoA is fine as long as the stick is somewhere near the
middle. Right forward is completely unnecessary.

I don't think I'd try a chandelle from that position, but the limiting
factor would be roll rate and getting in sufficient bank to be useful
before you ran out of speed. Slow over the top banked 90 degrees and
pulling half a G aroudn the corner would be useful in getting turned
around, if you kept the string straight and the stick back not too far.
Slow over the top and banked 30 degrees would do you very little good
(though I don't think it would hurt).

--
Bruce | 41.1670S | \ spoken | -+-
Hoult | 174.8263E | /\ here. | ----------O----------