LAS incident

"Capt.Doug" wrote

The FAA has instituted a test program similar to what you describe. So
far,
the test results are disappointing.

Is there some way with existing technology, that a pilot could alert ground
personnel that he is on takeoff roll?

I picture some code be entered into a transponder, from the time the pilot
receives takeoff clearance, until (s)he goes wheels up, then goes back to
the assigned code. The computers and display would then clearly show the
location of the pilot, on which runway, and that he has begun rolling.
Perhaps that (in addition) could trigger the stop lights.

Could the same work for when (s)he has been given landing clearance, and is
on very short final?

Just an idea, and I'm sure there are problems, but could this, or something
like it work?
--
Jim in NC

On Fri, 30 Sep 2005 00:52:51 -0400, "Morgans"
wrote:


"Capt.Doug" wrote

The FAA has instituted a test program similar to what you describe. So
far,
the test results are disappointing.

Is there some way with existing technology, that a pilot could alert ground
personnel that he is on takeoff roll?

I picture some code be entered into a transponder, from the time the pilot
receives takeoff clearance, until (s)he goes wheels up, then goes back to
the assigned code. The computers and display would then clearly show the
location of the pilot, on which runway, and that he has begun rolling.
Perhaps that (in addition) could trigger the stop lights.

Could the same work for when (s)he has been given landing clearance, and is
on very short final?

Just an idea, and I'm sure there are problems, but could this, or something
like it work?

There is something like that available, only not for aircraft. When I
was a police officer we had mobile data terminals (MDT's) in our
patrol car. A signal would go off telling us that we had an incoming
call, I hit one button to acknowledge the call, The next button I
would hit would to tell the system that I was en route. When I got to
the scene, I would hit another button that told the system I was
there. Then when I was finished, I would hit another button that
told the system I was done and that I was back in service. I could go
from call to call to call all day long without even talking on the
radio. So I could easily see this implemented in aircraft as follows:
Button one: acknowledge cleared for take off, Button two: Cleared
runway. Button fthreer: acknowledge cleared for landing. Button
four: off of active. With this incorporated into the transponder,
the system would see which transponder sent the signal and change the
lights as so required. So it could be accomplished, I would just hate
to see what the cost would be to do something like that.



Scott D.

Scott D wrote

With this incorporated into the transponder,
the system would see which transponder sent the signal and change the
lights as so required. So it could be accomplished, I would just hate
to see what the cost would be to do something like that.

That's why I think there would have to be a system that would use existing,
already installed equipment. We need to get creative for this one,
everyone!
--
Jim in NC

One idea I had was to use GPS and a simple ethernet network topology to
allow planes to do some of the work themselves.

Each plane, large or small would have a computer onboard that would take the
GPS position data and broadcast it with some additional info such as
heading, airspeed, ground speed, altitude, etc. Using ethernet technology
each plane would send and receive information from all other active aircraft
in the area. In remote areas were transponders don't work well they could
even relay packets plane to plane. Rather then worry about transponder
codes, the computer would accept the aircraft call sign and broadcast it so
everyone who sees it can call them up if they have to. Ethernet technology
is sofisticated enough to pass large amounts of data between hundreds of
computers on a single network with minimal collisions and was originally
designed to be wireless. It also includes error correction so that the data
received can be reliablely decoded.

The incoming packets would be entered into the on-board computer and project
on the screen the image of a plane complete with a 5 min line (= to the
distance the plane will fly in 5 min.) on the intended flight path. If two
lines intersect, at least one of the planes will have a 5 min warning and
can change course. You could even do a security bubble where you have a
variable size bubble around the plane and if two bubbles touch you have a
warning message come up. With the current processing capability of an Intel
CPU, performing one task only, this should not be a problem. Not to mention
that you have multiple computers each looking around each plane for possible
threats.

On the ground each plane would be able to see where the other active
aircraft are on an airport diagram and even see if one is on a takeoff roll
the pilot waiting to cross the threshold could see that the plane is in
position and either ready to roll or rolling. He could then act as a backup
for ATC, and catch possible mistakes before they become bigger.

The system could even be used to provide WX info to the appropriate agency.
Imagine if the system could provide true airspeed and ground speed as well
as heading and the difference between heading and the way the plane is
pointing. A computer on the ground could calculate wind speed aloft all
along the flight path. I am sure the weather service would love it and be
willing to help with the cost.

A very simple idea really.


"Morgans" wrote in message
...

Scott D wrote

With this incorporated into the transponder,
the system would see which transponder sent the signal and change the
lights as so required. So it could be accomplished, I would just hate
to see what the cost would be to do something like that.

That's why I think there would have to be a system that would use
existing,
already installed equipment. We need to get creative for this one,
everyone!
--
Jim in NC

"Andre" wrote in message
One idea I had was to use GPS and a simple ethernet network topology to
allow planes to do some of the work themselves.

There are some other test programs in place similar to your idea. One is
ADS-B being tested in Alaska which has a lack of infrastructure. Already in
place is TIS. My C-414A has this installed and it is wonderful. The
compromise with it is when I go to the islands where the radar sites don't
send a TIS signal.

As for the runway incursion problem, Ground surveillence radar is being
tested in Providence (PVD) and Orlando (MCO). I hear that it is very
successful when combined with the new lighting program.

D.

Morgans wrote:

Is there some way with existing technology, that a pilot could alert ground
personnel that he is on takeoff roll?

I have a system that has always worked for me but would not be universal. So
far, every time I've been cleared for takeoff, I've been sitting at the
hold-short line, ready to go. When I acknowledge the takeoff clearance, I add
the word "rolling" to the end -- as in "3162 Kebec, rolling."

As I understand this situation, though, one aircraft had already been cleared
for takeoff after another one. In that case, the clearance for that aircraft
would be issued some time before the aircraft actually starts the takeoff run,
so it would not be appropriate for the pilot to say he's taking off.

George Patterson
Drink is the curse of the land. It makes you quarrel with your neighbor.
It makes you shoot at your landlord. And it makes you miss him.