Landing Light SOP

What makes you think a GE 4509 is 'non-certified'?

Nothing. I'm just smarting from paying seven hundred dollars for a five
dollar part.

Jos
--
Money: what you need when you run out of brains.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

Jose wrote:

So, does this mean it's ok to use a non-certified light, or just that
you'd probably get away with it?

It is *not* ok to use a non-certified part. My take on the matter is that, if an
aircraft was certified to use Delco part number AC-9732-5, I can install a Delco
AC-9732-5 that I bought at the local NAPA dealer. I have heard that certain
assholes in the FAA feel that a Delco AC-9732-5 purchased from NAPA isn't ok;
that you have to buy it from, say, Piper for it to be legal. My take on that is
that they are wrong, and, given that nobody can tell where I bought my Delco
AC-9732-5 unless I tell them, I *will* "get away with it."

Either way, when I install the same make & model of part that is listed in the
certfication papers, I *am* installing a certified part. It says so in the
certification.

Disclaimer: I have no idea if Delco actually made part number AC-9732-5. I made
that up.

As far as a GE 4509 bulb is concerned, that's what the two aircraft I've owned
were certified to use, and every bulb I installed was a certified bulb.

George Patterson
Drink is the curse of the land. It makes you quarrel with your neighbor.
It makes you shoot at your landlord. And it makes you miss him.

Jose wrote:

Jose wrote:

Except, NEVER in the clouds at night!

Why? It's not a bad way to know you're actually =in= the clouds, and
not between layers or something.

Why do you like to harm your night vision in the clouds? I'm curious.
How bright do you keep your instrument panel while you do this?

Actually, come to think of it, I do it outside the clouds, to let me
know when I enter them.

Ahh, ok. That makes more sense than using landing lights (and strobes for
that matter) inside clouds.

George Patterson wrote:

Greg wrote:

North America car light standards are poor.

That's because what works well in Boston (or, as you state, Canada) doesn't work
well in Florida. Having much in the way of lighting standards in North America
is a poor idea.

I disagree. Bad DRL implementations (e.g. those based on high beam bulbs) and bad
lense standards that permit implementations that cause excessive glare (e.g.
NHTSA/DOT standards that Canada also uses) are still poor whether in Newfoundland or
New Mexico. Take a drive at night anywhere in western Europe and you'll see what I
mean.

Roger wrote:

On Sun, 30 Oct 2005 01:47:07 -0500, "Morgans"
wrote:


"W P Dixon" wrote

I hate those car lights!,
Oh they'd be great on my car while driving, but being in a car heading
into them I hate it! Blinds the crap out of me in my wife's low sitting
car.
Doesn't bother me as bad in my truck.

I know what you mean. IMHO, they ought to be banned, except for use on high
beam, with a regular light for low beam.

I hate 'em with a passion. When I meet a car with those on at night I
darn near have to pull over and they claim they are easier on the eyes
of oncoming drivers. Maybe young ones, but the majority of drivers
are now in the middle age and older class.


Don't be too quick to blame HID lights themselves. Usually HID lights are in high
end cars with above average (for N America) lenses that have proper focus and
(assuming proper aim) do not cause excessive glare to oncoming drivers.

Unfortunately there are a lot of (crap) "HID conversion kits" which are a
disaster. There are also even wanna-be HID lights sold under names like "cool
blue" and other crap. At best they just slightly reduce light output. At worst
they cause glare and blinding of oncoming drivers.

Good headlights provide lots of light and keep it in the road in front of you and
NOT in the eyes of oncoming drivers. Take a drive in Europe (a continent with
generally excellent headlight standards) at night and you will notice how nice it
is to drive without glare in your face everytime a car passes, and HID lamps
won't bother you a bit. Unfortunately our leaders in North America standards
don't take glare seriously.

(Potentially ambiguous rear red turn signals are not legal in Europe either,
although N America has led with the center high mount stop lamp, which I think is
a good feature.)

Ahh, ok. That makes more sense than using landing lights (and strobes for
that matter) inside clouds.

Actually, an occasional strobe in clouds is a good way to see what they
are made of.

Jose
--
Money: what you need when you run out of brains.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

Greg wrote:

There are also even wanna-be HID lights sold under names like "cool
blue" and other crap.

I've not done an extensive survey or anything, but the few aftermarket kits I've
looked at carried a note that they are for off-road use only. Of course, that
doesn't slow most people down. I think "cool blue" was one of the ones I glanced at.

I have a Nissan 4WD pickup truck with Bosch fog lights. I've never felt the need
for better lighting on the road.

George Patterson
Drink is the curse of the land. It makes you quarrel with your neighbor.
It makes you shoot at your landlord. And it makes you miss him.

"George Patterson" wrote in message
news:UDA9f.10245$bD.4407@trndny01...
It is *not* ok to use a non-certified part. My take on the matter is that,
if an aircraft was certified to use Delco part number AC-9732-5, I can
install a Delco AC-9732-5 that I bought at the local NAPA dealer. I have
heard that certain assholes in the FAA feel that a Delco AC-9732-5
purchased from NAPA isn't ok; that you have to buy it from, say, Piper for
it to be legal. My take on that is that they are wrong, and, given that
nobody can tell where I bought my Delco AC-9732-5 unless I tell them, I
*will* "get away with it."

IMHO, a caveat here is that sometimes parts are manufactured in bulk, and
then certified through additional testing by another party (such as the
aircraft manufacturer). Just because the part is manufactured by the same
manufacturer who made it for the aircraft doesn't mean it's certified for
that use.

However, as far as I know, when the part is certified through the third
party, it's labeled as such. You wouldn't find an aircraft type certificate
specifying "Delco AC-9732-5" if that part was certified through the aircraft
manufacturer; it would be relabled something else.

The problem comes in when one looks at the part being replaced, rather than
the type certificate, maintenance manual, etc. The part itself may not have
any of its markings changed after going through another layer of inspection.
For that matter, the installed part might not be legal.

It might seem silly to worry about a light bulb, but it may be that the
"certified" version of the bulb has been tested to ensure a variety of
things that are important for aircraft, but not as important for other uses.
Fire hazard comes to mind, for example. I mean, you don't really want your
bulb catching things on fire regardless of where you're using it, but being
on fire while in the air in an aircraft is especially bad news.

Not that I know bulbs are actually tested for fire hazard...it's just
something I expect they could be tested for. My point is simply that if one
doesn't know for a fact that a part from one source is identical IN EVERY
WAY to the same part from another source, one should make sure they've
obtained the part through an aviation-approved source.

Pete

I can relate!, I have two deer spotters mounted on my brush guard. I turn
them on when I turn down my dead end street, just because my neighbors get a
kick out of them lighting the neighborhood. I have never used them on the
road in traffic.
What gets me is these little cars with those messed up lights and then
they also have fog lights running as well! I'm like Jim I think they need to
get rid of those things. And fog lights are not meant to be on all the time,
they need to give tickets to those idiots.

Patrick
student SP
aircraft structural mech

"George Patterson" wrote in message
news:vuB9f.10408$bD.5995@trndny01...
Greg wrote:

There are also even wanna-be HID lights sold under names like "cool
blue" and other crap.

I've not done an extensive survey or anything, but the few aftermarket
kits I've looked at carried a note that they are for off-road use only. Of
course, that doesn't slow most people down. I think "cool blue" was one of
the ones I glanced at.

I have a Nissan 4WD pickup truck with Bosch fog lights. I've never felt
the need for better lighting on the road.

George Patterson
Drink is the curse of the land. It makes you quarrel with your
neighbor.
It makes you shoot at your landlord. And it makes you miss him.

On Mon, 31 Oct 2005 23:19:42 GMT, George Patterson
wrote:

wrote:

In that case maybe it should only be used for landing and not
approach!!!!

And, of course, you should turn it off for taxiing.

George Patterson
Drink is the curse of the land. It makes you quarrel with your neighbor.
It makes you shoot at your landlord. And it makes you miss him.

And if you don't like what you see in an emergency night landing?