Interesting Departure Procedu MRB Trixy Two

Weird. How far is the end of the runway from LDN019? What
happens if you obey the procedure but reach 1800' before
reaching LDN019? In that case you would turn to 160 before
getting there... and fly 160 for ever. Presumably if you reach
1800' before reaching LDN019 you just turn on course
to the radial... but it isn't obvious.

John

"Richard Kaplan" wrote in message
s.com...
I came across an interesting IFR Departure Procedure recently during some
training and I wonder if anyone has flown it before and/or if anyone else
has any comments.

For those who are AOPA members, here is a link to the MRB (Martinsburg WV)
Trixy Two Departu

http://download.aopa.org/iap/2003122..._departure.pdf

Consider departing Runway 26 and turning to a heading of 160 as instructed
in order to intercept the LDN R-019. The chart makes it appear as if the
assigned heading will intercept the course from the east, but in fact it
is
necessary to first fly through the desired radial and then intercept it
from
the west.

For those who use Jeppesen plates, the procedure is depicted much more
clearly, with the departure heading of 160 indeed crossing the desired
radial before turning back to intercept.

Any other thoughts? Has anyone tried this "for real"?


--
Richard Kaplan, CFII

www.flyimc.com

"John Harper" wrote in message
news:1076897517.11906@sj-nntpcache-3...

Presumably if you reach
1800' before reaching LDN019 you just turn on course
to the radial... but it isn't obvious.

"John Harper" wrote in message
news:1076897517.11906@sj-nntpcache-3...

Presumably if you reach
1800' before reaching LDN019 you just turn on course
to the radial... but it isn't obvious.


Well if you reach 1800' before reaching LDN019 I am not sure if you should
turn right onto the radial or if you should still intercept from the west .
Perhaps the procedure was written to avoid a sensitive area on the ground or
for noise abatement? I am not sure there is a clear answer that would
definitively comply with the procedure in that situation.


--
Richard Kaplan, CFII

www.flyimc.com

Well, I don't think they could catch you for that... hypothetically,
I take off in my F-16 carefully controlling my climb rate so I reach
1800' exactly 1 foot after crossing LDN019. Then I yank the nose
up and bank hard so as to turn in a tiny turn radius. Maybe this would
be easier with a heli. But anyway you see my point (maybe...).

If there was something you had to avoid then it would have to
say something like... maintain RH until crossing LDN010, then
turn left 160 to intercept LDN019.

John

"Richard Kaplan" wrote in message
s.com...



"John Harper" wrote in message
news:1076897517.11906@sj-nntpcache-3...

Presumably if you reach
1800' before reaching LDN019 you just turn on course
to the radial... but it isn't obvious.


Well if you reach 1800' before reaching LDN019 I am not sure if you should
turn right onto the radial or if you should still intercept from the west
..
Perhaps the procedure was written to avoid a sensitive area on the ground
or
for noise abatement? I am not sure there is a clear answer that would
definitively comply with the procedure in that situation.


--
Richard Kaplan, CFII

www.flyimc.com

The departure text is poorly written. It presumes I cannot climb to 1,800 feet
in less than 2.6 miles (the distance from the departure end of 26 to the radial
with no errors. The VOR radial could be closer or further, though, depending
upon errors.

If they wanted you to avoid some area then they would have to specifiy a fix at
which to turn.

It's crappy language so each chart maker put their own assumptions on the
graphics.

You need to do what you need to do to intercept the radial. If you have passed
through it before reaching 1,800 then you don't turn until 1,800 and you use the
heading of 160 in that case. If you can climg 1300 feet in less than 2.6 miles
then you turn left as necessary to intercept the radial. Nothing else would
make sense.

Richard Kaplan wrote:

"John Harper" wrote in message
news:1076897517.11906@sj-nntpcache-3...

Presumably if you reach
1800' before reaching LDN019 you just turn on course
to the radial... but it isn't obvious.

Well if you reach 1800' before reaching LDN019 I am not sure if you should
turn right onto the radial or if you should still intercept from the west .
Perhaps the procedure was written to avoid a sensitive area on the ground or
for noise abatement? I am not sure there is a clear answer that would
definitively comply with the procedure in that situation.

--
Richard Kaplan, CFII

www.flyimc.com

wrote in message ...
heading of 160 in that case. If you can climg 1300 feet in less than 2.6
miles
then you turn left as necessary to intercept the radial. Nothing else
would
make sense.

Turn left or turn right from a heading of 160?

--
Richard Kaplan, CFII

www.flyimc.com

Richard Kaplan wrote:

wrote in message ...
heading of 160 in that case. If you can climg 1300 feet in less than 2.6
miles
then you turn left as necessary to intercept the radial. Nothing else
would
make sense.

Turn left or turn right from a heading of 160?

You're losing me. What I said is if you get to 1,300 in less than 2.6 miles,
which is presumably before you pass through the radial, you then turn left as
necessary from runway heading to intercept the radial. If, on the other hand,
you are climbing at a gradient that takes you through the radial before you get
to 1,300 then you would turn left to intercept the radial once leaving 1,300.

wrote in message ...


Richard Kaplan wrote:

wrote in message ...
heading of 160 in that case. If you can climg 1300 feet in less than
2.6
miles
then you turn left as necessary to intercept the radial. Nothing else
would
make sense.

Turn left or turn right from a heading of 160?

You're losing me. What I said is if you get to 1,300 in less than 2.6
miles,
which is presumably before you pass through the radial, you then turn left
as
necessary from runway heading to intercept the radial.

"climbing left turn via heading 160" is not "turn left as necessary to
intercept the radial"

In reaching 1800' prior to the radial, a left turn to (or "via", whatever
that means) heading 160 never intercepts.

Robert Henry wrote:

wrote in message ...


Richard Kaplan wrote:

wrote in message ...
heading of 160 in that case. If you can climg 1300 feet in less than
2.6
miles
then you turn left as necessary to intercept the radial. Nothing else
would
make sense.

Turn left or turn right from a heading of 160?

You're losing me. What I said is if you get to 1,300 in less than 2.6
miles,
which is presumably before you pass through the radial, you then turn left
as
necessary from runway heading to intercept the radial.

"climbing left turn via heading 160" is not "turn left as necessary to
intercept the radial"

In reaching 1800' prior to the radial, a left turn to (or "via", whatever
that means) heading 160 never intercepts.

That is obvious, isn't it.

wrote in message ...

What I said is if you get to 1,300 in less than 2.6 miles,
which is presumably before you pass through the radial, you then turn left
as
necessary from runway heading to intercept the radial.


But a left turn shortly after departing will not intercept the radial.

---------------------------
Richard Kaplan, CFII

www.flyimc.com