With the wind?

"Newps" wrote in message
...
Baloney. If you get a chance go to any big airport on a day with light
winds. Most of these airports have preferred runways, landing in a
particular direction is preferred by the controllers for any number of
reasons. If the wind shifts to make that runway a tailwind, but it's only
5 knots or so, you will land with a tailwind or you will go somewhere
else. Same as my previous example about the crosswind.

Frankly, if a controller tells me I'm to land with a tailwind, he can get
stuffed. Aside from the "hey, that fence is rushing at me quite quickly"
factor, you also have the issue of the extra strain it's putting on the
tyres/landing gear because the ground speed is so much higher.

Generally, of course, the controller will try to accommodate you if you
don't like the "preferred" runway. This happened on my final PPL "skillls
test" - there was a highish (unforecast) crosswind on the east-west runway
by the time, and I wasn't sure whether the examiner would insist I used
that. So I said to him: "Do you want me to use 27, or are you happy for me
to ask for something different?". In hindsight, his reply was obvious:
"You're the pilot, you ask him for whatever you want - even if it means us
diverting". So I asked for RW22 (stiffish breeze only just off the
centreline) and got it.

I've been a passenger in a light aircraft where the controller has insisted
on the PIC using a particular (shortish) runway with a tailwind, though.
Fortunately, the PIC was (a) a 14,000-hour veteran and (b) a stroppy, but
polite old git. The discussion was an interesting one to hear, but the
one-sentence summary goes something like: "You don't have a clue what you're
saying, you don't have the performance documents or POH for this aircraft to
hand, and you're not responsible for the safety of this aircraft; I am,
though, so I'm going to do a visual approach to RWXX instead, and you can
lump it. When we're safely on the ground, if you want to come and argue with
me, that's fine". To the controller's credit, we sat and had a coffee with
him later and both sides explained their point of view in a grown-up manner,
and the controller went away with the understanding that if we'd landed with
the tailwind, we stood a good chance of being in the hedge at the other end.

D.

David Cartwright wrote:
"Newps" wrote in message
...

Baloney. If you get a chance go to any big airport on a day with light
winds. Most of these airports have preferred runways, landing in a
particular direction is preferred by the controllers for any number of
reasons. If the wind shifts to make that runway a tailwind, but it's only
5 knots or so, you will land with a tailwind or you will go somewhere
else. Same as my previous example about the crosswind.


Frankly, if a controller tells me I'm to land with a tailwind, he can get
stuffed.

That's fine. You land with the flow or you don't land. Your inability
to handle a 5 knot tailwind is not my problem.


Aside from the "hey, that fence is rushing at me quite quickly"
factor,

If a 5 knot tailwind does that to you, you are way too fast on final.


you also have the issue of the extra strain it's putting on the
tyres/landing gear because the ground speed is so much higher.

Yep, 5 knots. A real tire buster.

"David Cartwright" wrote in message
...

Frankly, if a controller tells me I'm to land with a tailwind, he can get
stuffed. Aside from the "hey, that fence is rushing at me quite quickly"
factor, you also have the issue of the extra strain it's putting on the
tyres/landing gear because the ground speed is so much higher.


So would you go somewhere else or land without a clearance?



I've been a passenger in a light aircraft where the controller has
insisted on the PIC using a particular (shortish) runway with a tailwind,
though. Fortunately, the PIC was (a) a 14,000-hour veteran and (b) a
stroppy, but polite old git. The discussion was an interesting one to
hear, but the one-sentence summary goes something like: "You don't have a
clue what you're saying, you don't have the performance documents or POH
for this aircraft to hand, and you're not responsible for the safety of
this aircraft; I am, though, so I'm going to do a visual approach to RWXX
instead, and you can lump it. When we're safely on the ground, if you want
to come and argue with me, that's fine". To the controller's credit, we
sat and had a coffee with him later and both sides explained their point
of view in a grown-up manner, and the controller went away with the
understanding that if we'd landed with the tailwind, we stood a good
chance of being in the hedge at the other end.


Did he land without a clearance?

The PIC can always say UNABLE, a magic word to controllers.
The controller cannot turn the whole airport around at a
busy air carrier airport, there may be dozens of airplanes
in trail for a hundred miles. But the PIC can usually work
something out to get a more favorable runway within a
reasonable time. It helps if you can fly your approach at
higher speeds, nothing like getting a C172 at 62 knots on
final to really slow the airport down.
Don't accept a clearance you can't safely fly, and practice
some non-standard operations to find out how to fly fast and
slow down for the landing.

Most POHs show landing distances with a tailwind, but you
should understand that many pilots fly and land too fast and
waste a lot of runway and have other landing problems [wheel
barrow]. Tires have a speed limit, but that is usually not
a problem on light aircraft.

If you want to fly to a big, busy airport with noise
problems, learn to deal with it.



--
James H. Macklin
ATP,CFI,A&P

--
The people think the Constitution protects their rights;
But government sees it as an obstacle to be overcome.
some support
http://www.usdoj.gov/olc/secondamendment2.htm
See http://www.fija.org/ more about your rights and duties.


"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote in
message
nk.net...
|
| "David Cartwright" wrote in
message
| ...
|
| Frankly, if a controller tells me I'm to land with a
tailwind, he can get
| stuffed. Aside from the "hey, that fence is rushing at
me quite quickly"
| factor, you also have the issue of the extra strain it's
putting on the
| tyres/landing gear because the ground speed is so much
higher.
|
|
| So would you go somewhere else or land without a
clearance?
|
|
|
| I've been a passenger in a light aircraft where the
controller has
| insisted on the PIC using a particular (shortish) runway
with a tailwind,
| though. Fortunately, the PIC was (a) a 14,000-hour
veteran and (b) a
| stroppy, but polite old git. The discussion was an
interesting one to
| hear, but the one-sentence summary goes something like:
"You don't have a
| clue what you're saying, you don't have the performance
documents or POH
| for this aircraft to hand, and you're not responsible
for the safety of
| this aircraft; I am, though, so I'm going to do a visual
approach to RWXX
| instead, and you can lump it. When we're safely on the
ground, if you want
| to come and argue with me, that's fine". To the
controller's credit, we
| sat and had a coffee with him later and both sides
explained their point
| of view in a grown-up manner, and the controller went
away with the
| understanding that if we'd landed with the tailwind, we
stood a good
| chance of being in the hedge at the other end.
|
|
| Did he land without a clearance?
|
|

"Jim Macklin" wrote in message
news:3n_Yf.8891$t22.4772@dukeread08...

The PIC can always say UNABLE, a magic word to controllers.


How so?

It is an official term, in the pilot/controller glossary
http://www.faa.gov/atpubs/PCG/U.HTM



UNABLE- Indicates inability to comply with a specific
instruction, request, or clearance.



"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote in
message
k.net...
|
| "Jim Macklin" wrote
in message
| news:3n_Yf.8891$t22.4772@dukeread08...
|
| The PIC can always say UNABLE, a magic word to
controllers.
|
|
| How so?
|
|

"Jim Macklin" wrote in message
news:NJ%Yf.8900$t22.5226@dukeread08...

It is an official term, in the pilot/controller glossary
http://www.faa.gov/atpubs/PCG/U.HTM

UNABLE- Indicates inability to comply with a specific
instruction, request, or clearance.


That makes it a magic word?

Because ATC can't question you further, you've stated that
you are UNABLE to do whatever it is that they wanted, such
as a turn into a thunderstorm, or a land and hold short. No
need to argue, just say unable and then tell them what you
can do... saves a lot of time.



--
James H. Macklin
ATP,CFI,A&P

--
The people think the Constitution protects their rights;
But government sees it as an obstacle to be overcome.
some support
http://www.usdoj.gov/olc/secondamendment2.htm
See http://www.fija.org/ more about your rights and duties.


"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote in
message
ink.net...
|
| "Jim Macklin" wrote
in message
| news:NJ%Yf.8900$t22.5226@dukeread08...
|
| It is an official term, in the pilot/controller glossary
| http://www.faa.gov/atpubs/PCG/U.HTM
|
| UNABLE- Indicates inability to comply with a specific
| instruction, request, or clearance.
|
|
| That makes it a magic word?
|
|

That makes it a magic word?

It's a metaphor.

Jose
--
Nothing takes longer than a shortcut.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote in message
nk.net...
Did he land without a clearance?

No, but the clearance he got that permitted him to do as he wished could be
best described as "begrudging".

D.