Grass Strips, Landing Technique, etc.

Kyle Boatright wrote:

"Matt Whiting" wrote in message
...

Orval Fairbairn wrote:

snip

Yesterday I witnessed a Baron pilot land nosewheel first, porpoise a
couple of times and eventually get control. Several of us there expected
to see the nosewheel fold and the Baron slide down the runway. Talk about
poor technique!

Your accounts got me to wondering ... how many of you all have actually
seen an airplane nose-over on a grass strip? I've been flying since 1978
at two airports that had grass strips (one had only grass until just last
year). I've NEVER seen an incident on a grass strip period, let alone one
that occurred because of failure to use short-field technique. I haven't
tried to search the NTSB archives yet. I'm sure they have some accounts,
but it certainly isn't the type of crash that I've either heard or read
about with any frequency.


Matt


Me. There is a fly-in at Thomasville, GA every fall. It is a favorite of
the folks who fly antiques. About 10 years ago I was there and had the
misfortune of watching a vintage biplane go end over end during a botched
landing. I didn't see the beginning of the accident, but something drew my
eye to the aircraft right as the nose went into the ground. No idea whether
the accident was grass strip related, a mechanical failue (locked brakes?),
or simple pilot error. I don't remember the field conditions being anything
special on that day.

I'm mainly interested in those directly attributed to the field being
grass, but not a soft field, and having the landing accident be due to
not using a soft-field technique on a "hard" grass field.

I searched the NTSB archives on the keywords grass and strip and got 500
or so hits, but in looking at a few, I couldn't find anything in this
category. Lots of stupid stuff, but not directly grass related. I
think one involved an SR-22 (which we had an extensive thread about
recenty) that landed on wet grass, skidded, and then attempted a
take-off and hit trees. However, it then mentioned that the person had
touched down with only 1200' left on a 2700' or so long strip. I'd
hardly blame such an accident on the grass. :-)

Matt

I think one involved an SR-22 (which we had an extensive thread about recenty) that landed on wet grass, skidded, and then attempted a take-off and hit trees. However, it then mentioned that the person had touched down with only 1200' left on a 2700' or so long strip. I'd hardly blame such an accident on the grass. :-)

Had it been concrete, would the skid had occured? Would braking action
been sufficient to stop in the remaning runway? These are some of the
differences that might be attributable to grass.

Jose
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Jose wrote:
I think one involved an SR-22 (which we had an extensive thread about
recenty) that landed on wet grass, skidded, and then attempted a
take-off and hit trees. However, it then mentioned that the person
had touched down with only 1200' left on a 2700' or so long strip.
I'd hardly blame such an accident on the grass. :-)


Had it been concrete, would the skid had occured? Would braking action
been sufficient to stop in the remaning runway? These are some of the
differences that might be attributable to grass.

Hard to say. Pilots who land that long are also typically landing
pretty hot. Anyone's guess if he'd have gotten stopped on concrete.
Certainly, the braking action is better on concrete than even the best
grass strip, although I've not found stopping on grass to ever be a
problem. If you land where you are supposed to, the additional drag
from grass will stop you just fine with no need for braking. Then
again, I almost never use the brakes when landing in any event. Only if
at a controlled field and the controller asks me to make the first
turn-off. The biggest airplane I've flown in the 182 and I could land
and stop without brakes in less than 2,000' in calm conditions and much
less than that with any significant headwind. I've only landed on one
runway where I felt I had to use significant braking (Marlboro, MA) and
even then, I probably used a lot more than I needed as I got stopped
with a good 500' of runway left. But the visual picture on final at
that airport was simply freaky the first time in. I guess I should have
taken my CFI along. :-)


Matt