Holds on autopilot?

Stan Prevost wrote:
"Robert M. Gary" wrote in message
oups.com...
So why do you say to mix up holds having integral minute leg lengths? And
why are holds 4, 3, or 2 minutes?

The 4,3 and 2 are the standard holds a pilot has in his bag. So if he
needs to hold for 7 minutes, he starts with a 4 and then does a 3, and
he's back at the fix, ready for the approach. A 4 minute hold is 1
minute out, a 3 minute hold is 30 seconds out, and a 2 minute hold is a
circle. These are standard training techniques for teaching holds.

I never said that.
True, you did not explicitly say that. You did say:
"In real life holding is about as common as being hit by lightening.
Even when you do get a hold its usually just a vectored hold, not a
formal procedures."

I don't know your intent with that comment, but it appeared to me to be
implicitly deprecating the importance of holding patterns as a component of
instrument flight and the importance of being proficient in flying them.

Because simulator guys don't need to take checkrides, they don't need
to wait for further clearance. They're trying to reproduce real life,
in real life you almost never get assigned formal holds. I think you
take the gamers way to seriously.

-Robert, CFII

"Robert M. Gary" wrote in message
ups.com...


The 4,3 and 2 are the standard holds a pilot has in his bag. So if he
needs to hold for 7 minutes, he starts with a 4 and then does a 3, and
he's back at the fix, ready for the approach. A 4 minute hold is 1
minute out, a 3 minute hold is 30 seconds out, and a 2 minute hold is a
circle. These are standard training techniques for teaching holds.


I don't know what you mean by standard training techniques. Maybe they are
your standards. There is no reference to such techniques, that I am aware
of, in any of the FAA materials, and I have never seen any published non-FAA
instrument training book that mentions such techniques. I would appreciate
knowing about them. Everything I have ever read just says to adjust your
last time around to cross at the specified time (not EFC time). There are
limits, of course. If you are just beginning your outbound turn (for
example), and ATC calls and says to cross the fix one minute later, you
ain't gonna make it.



Because simulator guys don't need to take checkrides, they don't need
to wait for further clearance. They're trying to reproduce real life,
in real life you almost never get assigned formal holds. I think you
take the gamers way to seriously.


I don't understand where gamers fit into this exchange, I took issue with
your statements, not a gamer's. I and other real-life pilots have disputed,
based on real-life experience, your repeated assertion that in real life you
almost never get assigned formal holds. And I dispute any positive value to
such a statement, and would assign it a negative value, for the reasons
already stated.

I don't understand where gamers fit into this exchange, I took issue with
your statements, not a gamer's.

If you've watched these groups for long you would know that Mxsmanic is
not a real pilot. He is a gamer and will not likely ever set foot in a
real plane. If you can find a good reason for gamers to play with holds
go ahead.

-Robert