PFC Lynch gets a Bronze Star?

(M Power) wrote in message . com...
(Kevin Brooks) wrote in message . com...
(M Power) wrote in message . com...
(Kevin Brooks) wrote in message . com...
(M Power) wrote in message . com...
(Kevin Brooks) wrote in message . com...
(M Power) wrote in message . com...

You are the one that is not making sense. In the Bosnia/Kosovo
campaign, only 204 Army BS were handed out. Out of those, only 25
enlisted Army soldiers recieved one. The lowest rank being an E-8.

Whoopie. So, are you now saying she did not deserve it because she was
not of a high enough grade? And what were those BS's awarded for?
Meritorious service, right? Usually with no involvement in ambushes,
injury, becoming a POW, acquiting oneself honorably under those
conditions, etc.?

Negative! A person of ANY grade should recieve a BS is they deserve
it. My point was that the only lower grade personnel that recieved it
did a hell of lot more than PFC Lynch did to get theirs. It's an
embarrassment to them, as well the medal, to give her one for her
*actions* when others have had to be in far more dangerous situations
than she wss in to recieve theirs.

LOL! How many BS winners, without "V"s, as her award was, have "had to
be in far more dangerous situations" than a freakin' *ambush* to get
those awards?! For gosh sakes--she got the same award they routinely
handed out to the vast *majority* of mid-level and higher officers
during ODS who never saw a shot fired in anger, and you want to break
her balls (or lack thereof)? Get real.

What, you are not going to argue that all of those staff pogues
getting the BS did so for actions in close combat?! I am surprised...


And I note the quick backpeddle you have performed regarding your
earlier claim that folks have been parachuting into DZ's and rescuing
pilots and getting less than the BS w/o V device....not exactly a big
surprise. Snipping your incorrect statements does not make them go
away...


No backpeddling here. I misread his original post and thought when he
said "medic", he meant PJ. That's why I used the analogy. But,
yes..you're correct in your assumption that I don't know "off the top
of my head" what medals PJ's earned for saving downed pilots. But the
fact is neither do you, so trying to use it to help your argument
makes you look desperate.

Au contraire. The last PJ I recall ("off the top of my head") who got
decorated (though I am sure some from Afghanistan and Iraqi have been
recognized by now) was the PJ in Mogadishu who got the Silver Star--a
bit more than your "they get nothin'", huh? Do a google and you should
be able to find his name; there were a couple of articles written
about it at the time.



They only recieved these for holding extremely high levels of
responsibility,

Bull poopie. The entire staff of my former BN (minus one single
individual) got the BS during ODS. I don't claim they did not deserve
that award (without V's), but the fact of the matter is that this was
a *theater level* engineer unit staff that spent the entire war in
Saudi Arabia. Folks in that unit as low as E-7 also received it, and
not one of them either faced an ambush or served a a PW.

All you have done is shown more proof of how watered down the medal
has become. Giving one to PFC Lynch has added to this effect
immensely.

Crap. You still seem to have a real problem understanding that the BS
w/o V is, and has been for decades, a rather common award for
meritorious service during a period of conflict; it appears that what
normally rates an ARCOM during peacetime service gets the old BS if
you happen to find yourself in-theater. Lynch's award, without the V,
has only added to this "effect" in the minds of those who apparently
base their own selfworth on the ribbons and awards they have garnered,
and who can't seem to be able to read the requirements set forth in
the regs for its award.

I do NOT believe PFC Lynch deserves a BS with a "V" or without a "V".

Too bad your opinion does not count in the DA Form 638 (IIRC) process
that resulted in her award, huh?

You think she deserves one without. I have read the 1650 manual
enough times to have a full understanding of what constitutes
deserving a BS. I simply don't believe what she went through
justifies her recieveing one. You do. So we disagree. And here we
are.




or for saving someone's life. Jessica Lynch did none
of these thngs.

The latter would normally garner a "V", which she did not get. As to
meritorious service, your definition may vary with mileage, but the
fact of the matter is that a bunch of them have been awarded for more
mundane activities, and will be for the current operation--you can bet
on it.

She got a BS for purely political reasons.

How do you *know* that?

Because it's obvious.

The sun obviously rises and sets every day--does that make it
"obvious" that the sun is rotating around the earth instead of vice
versa?

She's become america's sweetheart. She's all
over the news, she was given a new car, she has a free ride to
college, and she'll probably have a book deal and make tons of money.
Do you live under a rock?

You sound terribly jealous and more than a bit petty over what she has
received. Remember that she did not ASK for any of this, from getting
wounded to receiving the BS. She did her duty, and by all accounts it
was performed honorably under conditions that most of us will never
encounter--that's good enough for me.


I'm not jealous at all. But I really don't like the fact that someone
so un-deserving of all this is getting so much.

In your own self-serving opinion.

There are hundreds of
veterans from Afghanistan and Iraq that went through more than she
did, and got squat. A young Marine had his leg blown off from a
landmine right in front of me. He got stitched up, awarded a Purple
Heart and sent home. He's recieved nothing that comes close to what
PFC Lynch has recieved.

So the fact that one person, or many persons, from different
units/services were *not* recognized, however grievous that oversight
might be, justifies slogging the reputation and service of someone
like Lynch who was fortunate enough to be recognized? That does not
sound very logical to me. How many folks are slogging *your* actions
that resulted in your BS because they may have done *more* and gone
unrecognized? Should you therefore turn in your own award?


It's unfair, and it ****es me off.

Too bad. If it makes you feel any better, a lot of awards that you
probably have NOT been aware of have also been given out, like that to
the tank BN commander from the 3rd ID who led his troops in a close
fight with Iraqi armor (he got the SS). Sure the media is on Lynch
like stink on poopie--but that does not mean SHE asked for it, nor
does it mean this is the only BS that has been awarded. Or are you
also mad at CNN because they have not done a major story on *every*
awardee?

If that
makes me jealous, or rude, or whatever you want to call it...so be it.

Yep.

But with all of the actual heros we have in this country (other war
vets, firefighters from 911, etc...), it truly bothers me that someone
who isn't a hero at all gets treated like one. I won't apologize or
feel bad for feeling this way.

Too bad--all of that pent up anger can be bad for you, especially when
it is so badly misdirected. But hey, you are the guy who thinks being
in the KZ of an enmy ambush is no different from being in a fender
bender on I-95, right? Methinks few are agreeing with you on *any* of
this.





She
doesn't deserve to wear it,

Pardon me if I don't accept your whining as definitive proof of that.

The only whining here is from you. You're like a "no-nothing" sheep
that blindly follows the herd.

Funny, coming from a guy who can't seem to grasp that the BS w/o V is
not a decoration awarded for valor.

Because everyone else thinks she's a
hero, you think she's one as well. It's pretty funny, actually;-)

Nope, I don't think she is a hero; but then again, I don't think
anybody who has the BS w/o V is a "hero", not based upon that item
alone. Even the guys I persnally have known who had the V did not
think of themselves as "heroic"--are you getting this award mixed up
with the SS, DSC, and MOH, or for that matter the Soldier's Medal?

Well, are you?!



and the BS has been watered down even more
by her receiving it. Yep, as you've said, it really is that simple.

Then why can't you seem to *get* it? 'Nuff said. been fun, and the
plain fact is that tomorrow when we awaken Jessica will still have her
BS, and there is not a thing you can do about it (which given your
poor understanding of what the award really conotates is probably a
good thing....)

Have you ever been in combat?

Oh, boy! What are you, a graduate of the Art Kramer School of Those
Combat Qualified to Belittle the Efforts of Others?

Have you ever recieved a Combat "V" for
heroism?

Nope. Had some friends who did. Also served with some who did more
than they did and got zilch.

Well I *have*.

Ah....! Your reasoning now becomes clear! You have a BS w/V, and, not
realizing that the BS w/o V is routinely awarded for rather mundane
activities, feel that awarding Jessica the BS w/o V belittles your own
station in life. Don't worry; those who understand the awards system
will continue to recognize that the V denotes some degree of valor
involved in winning the award (but not necessarilly that you are a
self-designated "hero").

I can only laugh at this. You don't know me so I imagine it's easy
for you to be so presumptious.

Not presumptuous. You are the fellow who has repeatedly identified the
BS as being (properly) indicative of "heroism", right?

If you knew me at all you would
understand how ridiculous this sounds. PFC lynch could have recieved
a MOH and it wouldn't do a thing to belittle me or reduce my
self-esteem. If she deserved it, I'd be thrilled to see her get it.
I'm fine in that regard, but thank you very much for your concern:-)
I'm no hero, and never said I was.

Yeah, in a roundabout way you did. You said: "It's an embarrassment to
them, as well the medal, to give her one for her *actions* when others
have had to be in far more dangerous situations than she wss in to
recieve theirs." Which is of course patently false--the NCO's who I
knew who got the BS during ODS never got within 100 miles of the FLOT.
You also said: "...someone
who isn't a hero at all gets treated like one..." in reference to her
BS (which was not after all awarded for "heroism"). Now just what the
heck is the implication of that other than to say that if she *was* a
hero she'd deserve that BS? You see how with such comments you are
building a nice "frame of reference" for your own award, so to speak?



So my "understanding" far exceeds yours,

No, your paranoia regarding your own selfworth and the effect of Lynch
getting the BS upon it exceeds mine.

you
can be sure. As far as her having the award, this is true. But her
time in the military will be an uncomfortable one since anyone that
has been in combat (and some that have not) will never respect her for
recieving it, and I'm sure that feeling will be perfectly clear to
here every day she spends in active duty.

Uhmmm...you must have missed out on all those CIB's awarded during
recent conflicts to folks who never heard a shot fired in anger? If
you think her fellow soldiers are going to hold her receiving a BS
that she didn't ask for (there is a reason they are awarded via
"orders") against her, then you must have served with a different
breed of soldier from the ones I have been fortunate enough to have
served with.

The CIB is nothing compared to a BS, so I have no problem with
soldiers recieving it if they are in a combat zone. It's the same as
a Combat Action Ribbon. If they're in harms way, they should recieve
something for it. And if you're trying to tell me that soldiers are
going to be nothing but supportive of her, you're high. In a perfect
world, they would be. But it's not a perfect world.

Most are not as petty as you seem to be.



Her best bet is to get out
whle she can, and take advantage of her new found fame, because she's
going to be nothing but a long running joke as long as she stays in.
By the way Brooks, the only reason I've attacked you in this email is
in direct response to your attacking me first. I would have been
perfectly fine discussing this politely as I have with other posters
on this forum. But since you've chosen to come across as a rude
"know-nothing" in your reply, I'm happy to treat you as such. Take
care.

I am amused when one who has such a fragile self-image that they have
to resort to trashing the efforts of others then tries to take the "I
am noble" route...I am afraid you are a bit late. You have gained
nothing by trying to belittle Lynch's efforts, you have presented
incorrect statements, and I hope you are going to be able to get over
this apparently terrible blow to your self-esteem. PFC Lynch has done
nothing to you, so why don't you just let it go?


That's the problem with you. I'm not trashing her "efforts".

LOL! Like hell you haven't. Her being ambushed became a "traffic
accident" in your parlance (making it worse, you even tried to back up
that little verbal faux pas, to the point of going after Lord
Mountbatten?!?). That is pretty much a trash job in my book. How'd you
like it if a WWII vet told you your combat experience was nothing but
a training event?

I'm
simply saying that what "efforts" she did accomplish, are not
deserving of the BS. This isn't about me, this isn't about a dreamt
up "blow to my self-esteem", this isn't about jealousy, it's about a
soldier getting a medal she didn't deserve. And about how people like
yourself are so swayed by a somewhat pretty girl that it doesn't
matter whether she deserves it or not. You'll support her regardless.

What utter bull****. I happen to think that any and all of the folks
who went through that ambush, were captured, and acted in the best
traditions of the US Army while under captivity may very well equally
deserve the BS, at least as much as a staff pogue sitting in Kuwait
City for the duration does. But in the end I could really care less
WHO the grand media annoints--their recognition does not require me to
afford her any greater respect than I have for the other troops, but
unlike you it also does not force me to engage in trashing her
reputation due to misguided jealousy or animosity.


You're like the cop that won't give a speeding ticket to a pretty
girl because she smiles at you and winks her eye. What an
embarrassment it is that you were ever a soldier.

From what I have so far seen of your self-centered views, you'll
excuse me if your opinion does not cause me to lose any sleep tonight.
And when I awaken, Lynch will still have her BS, the sun will rise,
the birds will sing, and all will be right in the world...except for
that whining sound coming from your direction.

Brooks



Brooks

snip

Since I have more important things to do than argue every day, unlike
yourself, I'm putting an end to this exchange. So reply to your
heart's content, because I'm done. The facts are as follows:

-PFC Lynch did nothing to deserve a BS. I know this, and so does
every other military person that I've spoken with. You however, do
not.

-You support PFC Lynch because you find her attractive.

-You don't presently understand, and never will, what a "hero" really
is.

-You're an idiot.

Take care!

"M Power" wrote in message
om...

Since I have more important things to do than argue every day, unlike
yourself, I'm putting an end to this exchange. So reply to your
heart's content, because I'm done. The facts are as follows:

-PFC Lynch did nothing to deserve a BS. I know this, and so does
every other military person that I've spoken with. You however, do
not.

-You support PFC Lynch because you find her attractive.

-You don't presently understand, and never will, what a "hero" really
is.

-You're an idiot.


Those all appear to be opinions to me, not facts.

As far as you and every military person you've spoken to knowing that PFC
Lynch did nothing to deserve a BS, how is it that you can know that? To my
knowledge no full account of the action she was involved in has been
released.

(M Power) wrote in message . com...
Since I have more important things to do than argue every day, unlike
yourself, I'm putting an end to this exchange. So reply to your
heart's content, because I'm done. The facts are as follows:

-PFC Lynch did nothing to deserve a BS. I know this, and so does
every other military person that I've spoken with. You however, do
not.

One wonders how you "know" this in spite of the fact that no official
record of her actions, or captivity, have been released to the
public...shoot from the hip much?


-You support PFC Lynch because you find her attractive.

LOL! Nope. I mean yes, she is I guess attractive, but they don't give
out the BS for looks.


-You don't presently understand, and never will, what a "hero" really
is.

I do know it is not defined by having received a BS w/o V, but
apparently that is gonna be news to you...


-You're an idiot.

My wife sometimes shares that view.


Take care!

Recommend you look into the "increasing your self-esteem" books
available in your local bookstore--they might be of help to you, at
least to the point where you won't feel it necessary to try to tear
down PFC Lynch in a misguided attempt to bolster your own...

Brooks