Near miss from space junk.

chris wrote:
On Mar 30, 5:19 pm, Mxsmanic wrote:
chris writes:
None of the small aircraft I have ever flown has had TCAS.. Are you
sure you got that right ???
By "often used," I meant "when present on small aircraft, this is the type
usually used," because it's cheaper. I don't think TCAS is really present
very much on small GA aircraft, but I don't have actual figures. Since good
avionics represent a substantial portion of the total cost of an aircraft, it
follows that one wouldn't see advanced avionics that often on aircraft that
are not otherwise very expensive. Who would install $2 million of avionics on
a $90,000 aircraft?

--
Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.

I fear it's even worse than you think, at least in this country, where
private aircraft ownership is quite rare. Most light a/c are either
aero club owned, i.e. 172 / Cherokee, or commercial, like Senecas and
the like.. And on the whole, avionics tends to get neglected. The
vast majority of club a/c wouldn't have GPS, let alone glass cockpits
or TCAS. I have seen inside some commercial operated light a/c like
Senecas and Aztecs and you'd probably be horrified at how basic they
are. Just a couple of ADFs and VORs and that's all they get. Maybe a
DME thrown in for good measure...

And don't think they get maintained either. If the a/c came with IFR
gear and isn't being used for IFR, like at an aero club, when things
like DME and VOR break down they don't get fixed, they just get
placarded as inop. Same as fuel gauges. Of 9 planes at our club,
only 4 have working fuel gauges!! The rest are just placarded u/s.
And the only reason there are 4 planes that have gauges that work is 3
of them are brand new a/craft. The deal with fuel gauges is, we know
the fuel burn and we have a stick to dip the tank on preflight, what
do we need gauges for ???


Hi Chris,

Doesn't the MEL in part 91.509 say that fuel gauges are required... Are
you saying that the director CAA has deemed that working (not
necessarily accurate) fuel gauges are not required in your club -what gives?

Cheers MC

DR wrote in :

chris wrote:
On Mar 30, 5:19 pm, Mxsmanic wrote:
chris writes:
None of the small aircraft I have ever flown has had TCAS.. Are
you sure you got that right ???
By "often used," I meant "when present on small aircraft, this is
the type usually used," because it's cheaper. I don't think TCAS is
really present very much on small GA aircraft, but I don't have
actual figures. Since good avionics represent a substantial portion
of the total cost of an aircraft, it follows that one wouldn't see
advanced avionics that often on aircraft that are not otherwise very
expensive. Who would install $2 million of avionics on a $90,000
aircraft?

--
Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.

I fear it's even worse than you think, at least in this country,
where private aircraft ownership is quite rare. Most light a/c are
either aero club owned, i.e. 172 / Cherokee, or commercial, like
Senecas and the like.. And on the whole, avionics tends to get
neglected. The vast majority of club a/c wouldn't have GPS, let
alone glass cockpits or TCAS. I have seen inside some commercial
operated light a/c like Senecas and Aztecs and you'd probably be
horrified at how basic they are. Just a couple of ADFs and VORs and
that's all they get. Maybe a DME thrown in for good measure...

And don't think they get maintained either. If the a/c came with IFR
gear and isn't being used for IFR, like at an aero club, when things
like DME and VOR break down they don't get fixed, they just get
placarded as inop. Same as fuel gauges. Of 9 planes at our club,
only 4 have working fuel gauges!! The rest are just placarded u/s.
And the only reason there are 4 planes that have gauges that work is
3 of them are brand new a/craft. The deal with fuel gauges is, we
know the fuel burn and we have a stick to dip the tank on preflight,
what do we need gauges for ???


Hi Chris,

Doesn't the MEL in part 91.509 say that fuel gauges are required...
Are you saying that the director CAA has deemed that working (not
necessarily accurate) fuel gauges are not required in your club -what
gives?

Flown lots of airliners where gauges may be U/S provided that the tanks
are dripped. This is not true of the current crop of airliners but you
coudl do it on older 73's for instance.

Bertie

Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
DR wrote in :

chris wrote:
On Mar 30, 5:19 pm, Mxsmanic wrote:
chris writes:
None of the small aircraft I have ever flown has had TCAS.. Are
you sure you got that right ???
By "often used," I meant "when present on small aircraft, this is
the type usually used," because it's cheaper. I don't think TCAS is
really present very much on small GA aircraft, but I don't have
actual figures. Since good avionics represent a substantial portion
of the total cost of an aircraft, it follows that one wouldn't see
advanced avionics that often on aircraft that are not otherwise very
expensive. Who would install $2 million of avionics on a $90,000
aircraft?

--
Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.
I fear it's even worse than you think, at least in this country,
where private aircraft ownership is quite rare. Most light a/c are
either aero club owned, i.e. 172 / Cherokee, or commercial, like
Senecas and the like.. And on the whole, avionics tends to get
neglected. The vast majority of club a/c wouldn't have GPS, let
alone glass cockpits or TCAS. I have seen inside some commercial
operated light a/c like Senecas and Aztecs and you'd probably be
horrified at how basic they are. Just a couple of ADFs and VORs and
that's all they get. Maybe a DME thrown in for good measure...

And don't think they get maintained either. If the a/c came with IFR
gear and isn't being used for IFR, like at an aero club, when things
like DME and VOR break down they don't get fixed, they just get
placarded as inop. Same as fuel gauges. Of 9 planes at our club,
only 4 have working fuel gauges!! The rest are just placarded u/s.
And the only reason there are 4 planes that have gauges that work is
3 of them are brand new a/craft. The deal with fuel gauges is, we
know the fuel burn and we have a stick to dip the tank on preflight,
what do we need gauges for ???

Hi Chris,

Doesn't the MEL in part 91.509 say that fuel gauges are required...
Are you saying that the director CAA has deemed that working (not
necessarily accurate) fuel gauges are not required in your club -what
gives?

Flown lots of airliners where gauges may be U/S provided that the tanks
are dripped. This is not true of the current crop of airliners but you
coudl do it on older 73's for instance.


Hmm, that really surprises me (but then a lot of things do!). I guess
the issue of a fuel leak would be moot... On the other hand, not having
cockpit guages (or the PIC not checking them) would contribute to why
that Canadian(?) heavy ran out of A1 awhile ago?

Cheers MC
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On 2 Apr, 23:41, DR wrote:
Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
DR wrote :

chris wrote:
On Mar 30, 5:19 pm, Mxsmanic wrote:
chris writes:
None of the small aircraft I have ever flown has had TCAS.. Are
you sure you got that right ???
By "often used," I meant "when present on small aircraft, this is
the type usually used," because it's cheaper. I don't think TCAS is
really present very much on small GA aircraft, but I don't have
actual figures. Since good avionics represent a substantial portion
of the total cost of an aircraft, it follows that one wouldn't see
advanced avionics that often on aircraft that are not otherwise very
expensive. Who would install $2 million of avionics on a $90,000
aircraft?

--
Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.
I fear it's even worse than you think, at least in this country,
where private aircraft ownership is quite rare. Most light a/c are
either aero club owned, i.e. 172 / Cherokee, or commercial, like
Senecas and the like.. And on the whole, avionics tends to get
neglected. The vast majority of club a/c wouldn't have GPS, let
alone glass cockpits or TCAS. I have seen inside some commercial
operated light a/c like Senecas and Aztecs and you'd probably be
horrified at how basic they are. Just a couple of ADFs and VORs and
that's all they get. Maybe a DME thrown in for good measure...

And don't think they get maintained either. If the a/c came with IFR
gear and isn't being used for IFR, like at an aero club, when things
like DME and VOR break down they don't get fixed, they just get
placarded as inop. Same as fuel gauges. Of 9 planes at our club,
only 4 have working fuel gauges!! The rest are just placarded u/s.
And the only reason there are 4 planes that have gauges that work is
3 of them are brand new a/craft. The deal with fuel gauges is, we
know the fuel burn and we have a stick to dip the tank on preflight,
what do we need gauges for ???

Hi Chris,

Doesn't the MEL in part 91.509 say that fuel gauges are required...
Are you saying that the director CAA has deemed that working (not
necessarily accurate) fuel gauges are not required in your club -what
gives?

Flown lots of airliners where gauges may be U/S provided that the tanks
are dripped. This is not true of the current crop of airliners but you
coudl do it on older 73's for instance.

Hmm, that really surprises me (but then a lot of things do!). I guess
the issue of a fuel leak would be moot... On the other hand, not having
cockpit guages (or the PIC not checking them) would contribute to why
that Canadian(?) heavy ran out of A1 awhile ago?


That's right. It was not an allowable MEL item in that airplane. Not
with the fault that they had, anyway, but they misread the MEL and
took it and at the same time made some errors in calculating the
uplift. There are restirctions as to what you can or cannot do with US
fuel gauges, but I can't remember exactly what nor can I look it up
cuz my current drive must have them to fly. Though we have drips, I.ve
never ever used them on this airplane. Did lots of times on the 737
and a couple of others, though.

Bertie

Bertie the Bunyip wrote:

Flown lots of airliners where gauges may be U/S provided that the tanks
are dripped. This is not true of the current crop of airliners but you
coudl do it on older 73's for instance.


Yep. I believe that is how the Gimli Glider got its start. :-)))


John Galban=====N4BQ (PA28-180)

--
Message posted via AviationKB.com
http://www.aviationkb.com/Uwe/Forums...ation/200704/1

On Apr 3, 12:53 pm, "flynrider via AviationKB.com" u32749@uwe wrote:
Bertie the Bunyip wrote:

Flown lots of airliners where gauges may be U/S provided that the tanks
are dripped. This is not true of the current crop of airliners but you
coudl do it on older 73's for instance.

Yep. I believe that is how the Gimli Glider got its start. :-)))

John Galban=====N4BQ (PA28-180)

--
Message posted via AviationKB.comhttp://www.aviationkb.com/Uwe/Forums.aspx/aviation/200704/1

Is that Gimli the dwarf ???

On 2007-04-03 03:14, chris wrote:
On Apr 3, 12:53 pm, "flynrider via AviationKB.com" u32749@uwe wrote:
Bertie the Bunyip wrote:

Flown lots of airliners where gauges may be U/S provided that the tanks
are dripped. This is not true of the current crop of airliners but you
coudl do it on older 73's for instance.

Yep. I believe that is how the Gimli Glider got its start. :-)))

John Galban=====N4BQ (PA28-180)

--
Message posted via AviationKB.comhttp://www.aviationkb.com/Uwe/Forums.aspx/aviation/200704/1

Is that Gimli the dwarf ???


Nope, not the guy from LotR.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gimli_Glider

On Apr 2, 4:43 pm, DR wrote:
chris wrote:
On Mar 30, 5:19 pm, Mxsmanic wrote:
chris writes:
None of the small aircraft I have ever flown has had TCAS.. Are you
sure you got that right ???
By "often used," I meant "when present on small aircraft, this is the type
usually used," because it's cheaper. I don't think TCAS is really present
very much on small GA aircraft, but I don't have actual figures. Since good
avionics represent a substantial portion of the total cost of an aircraft, it
follows that one wouldn't see advanced avionics that often on aircraft that
are not otherwise very expensive. Who would install $2 million of avionics on
a $90,000 aircraft?

--
Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.

I fear it's even worse than you think, at least in this country, where
private aircraft ownership is quite rare. Most light a/c are either
aero club owned, i.e. 172 / Cherokee, or commercial, like Senecas and
the like.. And on the whole, avionics tends to get neglected. The
vast majority of club a/c wouldn't have GPS, let alone glass cockpits
or TCAS. I have seen inside some commercial operated light a/c like
Senecas and Aztecs and you'd probably be horrified at how basic they
are. Just a couple of ADFs and VORs and that's all they get. Maybe a
DME thrown in for good measure...

And don't think they get maintained either. If the a/c came with IFR
gear and isn't being used for IFR, like at an aero club, when things
like DME and VOR break down they don't get fixed, they just get
placarded as inop. Same as fuel gauges. Of 9 planes at our club,
only 4 have working fuel gauges!! The rest are just placarded u/s.
And the only reason there are 4 planes that have gauges that work is 3
of them are brand new a/craft. The deal with fuel gauges is, we know
the fuel burn and we have a stick to dip the tank on preflight, what
do we need gauges for ???

Hi Chris,

Doesn't the MEL in part 91.509 say that fuel gauges are required... Are
you saying that the director CAA has deemed that working (not
necessarily accurate) fuel gauges are not required in your club -what gives?

Cheers MC- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

They have fuel gauges.. they just don't work :-)

On 2 Apr, 21:48, "chris" wrote:
On Apr 2, 4:43 pm, DR wrote:





chris wrote:
On Mar 30, 5:19 pm, Mxsmanic wrote:
chris writes:
None of the small aircraft I have ever flown has had TCAS.. Are you
sure you got that right ???
By "often used," I meant "when present on small aircraft, this is the type
usually used," because it's cheaper. I don't think TCAS is really present
very much on small GA aircraft, but I don't have actual figures. Since good
avionics represent a substantial portion of the total cost of an aircraft, it
follows that one wouldn't see advanced avionics that often on aircraft that
are not otherwise very expensive. Who would install $2 million of avionics on
a $90,000 aircraft?

--
Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.

I fear it's even worse than you think, at least in this country, where
private aircraft ownership is quite rare. Most light a/c are either
aero club owned, i.e. 172 / Cherokee, or commercial, like Senecas and
the like.. And on the whole, avionics tends to get neglected. The
vast majority of club a/c wouldn't have GPS, let alone glass cockpits
or TCAS. I have seen inside some commercial operated light a/c like
Senecas and Aztecs and you'd probably be horrified at how basic they
are. Just a couple of ADFs and VORs and that's all they get. Maybe a
DME thrown in for good measure...

And don't think they get maintained either. If the a/c came with IFR
gear and isn't being used for IFR, like at an aero club, when things
like DME and VOR break down they don't get fixed, they just get
placarded as inop. Same as fuel gauges. Of 9 planes at our club,
only 4 have working fuel gauges!! The rest are just placarded u/s.
And the only reason there are 4 planes that have gauges that work is 3
of them are brand new a/craft. The deal with fuel gauges is, we know
the fuel burn and we have a stick to dip the tank on preflight, what
do we need gauges for ???

Hi Chris,

Doesn't the MEL in part 91.509 say that fuel gauges are required... Are
you saying that the director CAA has deemed that working (not
necessarily accurate) fuel gauges are not required in your club -what gives?

Cheers MC- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

They have fuel gauges.. they just don't work :-)- Hide quoted text -


Well, there's only one thing you can rely on for a fuel gauge to tell
you anyway. That it's in the panel. That's it. You must check at least
one other way that you have sufficient in any airplane except a
glider..


Bertie