Ercoupe

Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
Dudley Henriques wrote in
:


I ate a rubber donut this morning! :-)


I had a nice one!


Bertie
Dunk'in Donuts.......my curse on earth! The car pulls into their lot and
I can't stop it :-))

--
Dudley Henriques

Dudley Henriques wrote in
:

Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
Dudley Henriques wrote in
:


I ate a rubber donut this morning! :-)


I had a nice one!


Bertie
Dunk'in Donuts.......my curse on earth! The car pulls into their lot
and
I can't stop it :-))


Heh heh. WWe got some homemade stuff at a charity case this AM.

Bertie

On Mar 11, 9:59 am, Dudley Henriques wrote:
xyzzy wrote:
On Mar 10, 3:32 pm, Dudley Henriques wrote:
xyzzy wrote:
On Mar 9, 8:23 pm, Dudley Henriques wrote:
Dan wrote:
On Mar 9, 7:20 pm, Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
Dan wrote in news:42b5622c-9f2a-4376-814a-
:
On Mar 9, 7:07 pm, Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
It's part of the STC to remove it when it's converted to a Pacer, but
it
hadn't been done for some reason.
Bertie
Thought so.
I just wonder who came up with that Tri Pacer gear...
=
Who came up with it? Probably Pug Piper. It was just to meet the demand
for more milk stools in the fifties. A number of airplanes were modified
by the factories to trike configuration. the C 170 the 180 and 140, for
instance and the particularly unfortunate WACO N.
Bertie
Bertie
Yikes.. that was a selling point? It looks like it's about to tip over
if the Line boy sneezes...
I've flown the Ercoupe. Not much to it really. It was fun running the
side windows down and flying along with my arm out on the edge of the
cockpit sort of like in a car.
The landings were a bit different if you had any crosswind at all, but
easily doable in the crab. Take off was the same. As soon as you broke
ground, it weather vaned into the wind with aileron. Sort of a "spooky"
little airplane but it flew quite well and was quite fast for its day.
The one I flew didn't have the later rudder capability. Never flew the Alon.
--
Dudley Henriques
I flew one once and one thing I remember is that taking off in a left
crosswind took some getting used to. Had to bank it farther right
than most people will be comfortable with that low, to keep it
straight. Because you couldn't correct for the weathervaning + left
turning tendency with the rudder. Yes, I know the left turning
tendency was supposedly designed out of it. Not. At takeoff power
it's still there. Of coruse the one I was flying was a 75 hp model
that had been modified with the c-90, so that might have something to
do with it
Never had these problems. I'm sure you meant a left bank into a left
crosswind and not a right. :-))

No. weathervaning makes the plane want to go left. The left turning
tendency makes it want to go left. Since there are no rudder pedals,
the only way to correct it is to bank right. Not very comfortable
raising the upwind wing so low....

I never noticed any noticeable left turning tendencies in the Coupe.
PFactor was no issue as the basic attitude of the propeller was fairly
level with the relative wind on takeoff. Not enough vertical surface
back there for much spiraling slipstream effect. Of course there's
always a bit of gyroscopic precess as you rotate in pitch, but nothing
of note really in the Coupe. Torque correction is in roll anyway, and
you had ample aileron on the airplane.

The propeller is canted 3 degrees from straight ahead which is
supposed to counteract left turning tendency, but at full power and
low speed it still has some, especially with the c-90.

It was different all right, but no big deal at all on these issues.

Yeah, if I flew it more I might have gotten used to it. Only flew it
for about 1/2 hour in the pattern. It was fun, just had to get used
to its quirks.

This is inconsistant with my experience in the Ercoupe.

I experienced little to no left turning tendency in the 90 Ercoupe. In a
crosswind, on rotation, the airplane weathervanes into the wind as a
natural reaction. We flew it in varying wind conditions. I don't recall
any time when opposite aileron was used with the wind. The natural
response in this airplane is to allow the weathervane into the wind
finding the "sweet spot" where the airplane will track and leveling the
wings at that spot.
This is the accepted procedure for crosswind in the Ercoupe as I
remember it. It's almost exactly the same procedure used in aerobatics
when entering a slow roll by the pilot using the adverse yaw to aid in
keeping the nose up following that with top rudder.
Of course the Coupe has no rudder so you're in effect using the two
tools you have to establish crosswind track...the wind, and neutralizing
the wings with aileron.
I can envision no scenario in an Ercoupe where downwind aileron would be
used in a crosswind takeoff. You simply play the weathervane against the
wind then neutralize at the track point. It ain't pretty...but it works.
:-))

shrug Tell it to the instructor who owned the plane and flew with
me

xyzzy wrote:
On Mar 11, 9:59 am, Dudley Henriques wrote:
xyzzy wrote:
On Mar 10, 3:32 pm, Dudley Henriques wrote:
xyzzy wrote:
On Mar 9, 8:23 pm, Dudley Henriques wrote:
Dan wrote:
On Mar 9, 7:20 pm, Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
Dan wrote in news:42b5622c-9f2a-4376-814a-
:
On Mar 9, 7:07 pm, Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
It's part of the STC to remove it when it's converted to a Pacer, but
it
hadn't been done for some reason.
Bertie
Thought so.
I just wonder who came up with that Tri Pacer gear...
=
Who came up with it? Probably Pug Piper. It was just to meet the demand
for more milk stools in the fifties. A number of airplanes were modified
by the factories to trike configuration. the C 170 the 180 and 140, for
instance and the particularly unfortunate WACO N.
Bertie
Bertie
Yikes.. that was a selling point? It looks like it's about to tip over
if the Line boy sneezes...
I've flown the Ercoupe. Not much to it really. It was fun running the
side windows down and flying along with my arm out on the edge of the
cockpit sort of like in a car.
The landings were a bit different if you had any crosswind at all, but
easily doable in the crab. Take off was the same. As soon as you broke
ground, it weather vaned into the wind with aileron. Sort of a "spooky"
little airplane but it flew quite well and was quite fast for its day.
The one I flew didn't have the later rudder capability. Never flew the Alon.
--
Dudley Henriques
I flew one once and one thing I remember is that taking off in a left
crosswind took some getting used to. Had to bank it farther right
than most people will be comfortable with that low, to keep it
straight. Because you couldn't correct for the weathervaning + left
turning tendency with the rudder. Yes, I know the left turning
tendency was supposedly designed out of it. Not. At takeoff power
it's still there. Of coruse the one I was flying was a 75 hp model
that had been modified with the c-90, so that might have something to
do with it
Never had these problems. I'm sure you meant a left bank into a left
crosswind and not a right. :-))
No. weathervaning makes the plane want to go left. The left turning
tendency makes it want to go left. Since there are no rudder pedals,
the only way to correct it is to bank right. Not very comfortable
raising the upwind wing so low....
I never noticed any noticeable left turning tendencies in the Coupe.
PFactor was no issue as the basic attitude of the propeller was fairly
level with the relative wind on takeoff. Not enough vertical surface
back there for much spiraling slipstream effect. Of course there's
always a bit of gyroscopic precess as you rotate in pitch, but nothing
of note really in the Coupe. Torque correction is in roll anyway, and
you had ample aileron on the airplane.
The propeller is canted 3 degrees from straight ahead which is
supposed to counteract left turning tendency, but at full power and
low speed it still has some, especially with the c-90.
It was different all right, but no big deal at all on these issues.
Yeah, if I flew it more I might have gotten used to it. Only flew it
for about 1/2 hour in the pattern. It was fun, just had to get used
to its quirks.
This is inconsistant with my experience in the Ercoupe.

I experienced little to no left turning tendency in the 90 Ercoupe. In a
crosswind, on rotation, the airplane weathervanes into the wind as a
natural reaction. We flew it in varying wind conditions. I don't recall
any time when opposite aileron was used with the wind. The natural
response in this airplane is to allow the weathervane into the wind
finding the "sweet spot" where the airplane will track and leveling the
wings at that spot.
This is the accepted procedure for crosswind in the Ercoupe as I
remember it. It's almost exactly the same procedure used in aerobatics
when entering a slow roll by the pilot using the adverse yaw to aid in
keeping the nose up following that with top rudder.
Of course the Coupe has no rudder so you're in effect using the two
tools you have to establish crosswind track...the wind, and neutralizing
the wings with aileron.
I can envision no scenario in an Ercoupe where downwind aileron would be
used in a crosswind takeoff. You simply play the weathervane against the
wind then neutralize at the track point. It ain't pretty...but it works.
:-))

shrug Tell it to the instructor who owned the plane and flew with
me
Be glad to. Pass it on if you wish :-)

--
Dudley Henriques

Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
Dudley Henriques wrote in
:

Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
Dudley Henriques wrote in
:


I ate a rubber donut this morning! :-)

I had a nice one!


Bertie
Dunk'in Donuts.......my curse on earth! The car pulls into their lot
and
I can't stop it :-))


Heh heh. WWe got some homemade stuff at a charity case this AM.

Bertie


Home made huh?? Don't tell my car!!!! :-))

--
Dudley Henriques

"Bertie the Bunyip" wrote in message
.. .
Phil J wrote in news:875f835d-861f-4472-80b2-
:

On Mar 9, 3:06 pm, Dan wrote:
On Mar 9, 3:58 pm, Bertie the Bunyip wrote:

Heard of it, never saw one.

Seen a few. There was one for sale on Barnstormers recently.
Bertie

Awful because?

No rudders. Even the ones built by Alon, which had pedals, didn't
have
decent yaw control.

The big problem with them is, they;re 'idiot proof'. When you make
something idiot proof, all you do is breed a better class of idiot.
Idiots are like antibiotic resistant staff infections like that.

Bertie

Hmmm..

Good point. The "spin proof" claim would indicate less than full
control authority, which comes in handy from time to time.

I wonder if there's a way to correlate "improved safety features"
with
"increased accident rate."

Kinda like riding a bike -- the sense of protection a helmet provides
may encourage risky behavior.

Hmmmm...

Dan

From what I have read, the Ercoupe had a few problems. If you lost
the engine, it didn't glide worth a damn. And if you let it get too
slow on approach it would develope a huge sink rate. If you didn't
speed up, you couldn't flare enough to arrest the sink rate and you
would slam into the ground.


Actually, the flight manual actually said that if you were to high and
needed to scrub off altitude, you should pull the stick back into your
gut and close the throttle. I did it and it does work and is pretty
controllable,but it is very undcomfortable.

As the years went by and the main gear oleos got old, or when the nose
gear was replaced with a dual-fork strut, they tended to sit too nose-
high on the ground, and that made them more difficult to land,
especially in crosswinds, because the angle-of-attack stayed too high
at touchdown.

I think the mains use rubber donuts, but I'm not sure.


Bertie

I believe that I have seen at least two with "coil overs", but I don't know
for sure of any type of main undercariage that was not used at some time. I
tried without success to look up some info for what might have been typical.

Peter

Dudley Henriques wrote in
:

Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
Dudley Henriques wrote in
:

Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
Dudley Henriques wrote in
:


I ate a rubber donut this morning! :-)

I had a nice one!


Bertie
Dunk'in Donuts.......my curse on earth! The car pulls into their lot
and
I can't stop it :-))


Heh heh. WWe got some homemade stuff at a charity case this AM.

Bertie


Home made huh?? Don't tell my car!!!! :-))


Must be one hell of a car!

Bertie

On Mar 11, 10:22*am, Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
Phil J wrote in news:875f835d-861f-4472-80b2-
:







On Mar 9, 3:06*pm, Dan wrote:
On Mar 9, 3:58 pm, Bertie the Bunyip wrote:

Heard of it, never saw one.

Seen a few. There was one for sale on Barnstormers recently.
Bertie

Awful because?

No rudders. Even the ones built by Alon, which had pedals, didn't
have
decent yaw control.

The big problem with them is, they;re 'idiot proof'. When you make
something idiot proof, all you do is breed a better class of idiot.
Idiots are like antibiotic resistant staff infections like that.

Bertie

Hmmm..

Good point. The "spin proof" claim would indicate less than full
control authority, which comes in handy from time to time.

I wonder if there's a way to correlate "improved safety features"
with
"increased accident rate."

Kinda like riding a bike -- the sense of protection a helmet provides
may encourage risky behavior.

Hmmmm...

Dan

From what I have read, the Ercoupe had a few problems. *If you lost
the engine, it didn't glide worth a damn. *And if you let it get too
slow on approach it would develope a huge sink rate. *If you didn't
speed up, you couldn't flare enough to arrest the sink rate and you
would slam into the ground.

Actually, the flight manual actually said that if you were to high and
needed to scrub off altitude, you should pull the stick back into your
gut and close the throttle. I did it and it does work and is pretty
controllable,but it is very undcomfortable.



As the years went by and the main gear oleos got old, or when the nose
gear was replaced with a dual-fork strut, they tended to sit too nose-
high on the ground, and that made them more difficult to land,
especially in crosswinds, because the angle-of-attack stayed too high
at touchdown.

I think the mains use rubber donuts, but I'm not sure.

Bertie- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

You're right, it was rubber doughnuts. I guess they just got stale as
the years went by.

Phil

On Mar 11, 10:46*am, Dudley Henriques wrote:
Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
Dudley Henriques wrote in
:

I ate a rubber donut this morning! :-)

I had a nice one!

Bertie

Dunk'in Donuts.......my curse on earth! The car pulls into their lot and
I can't stop it :-))

--
Dudley Henriques

I think I saw the same thing once on an episode of Knight Rider!

Phil

Phil J wrote:
On Mar 11, 10:46 am, Dudley Henriques wrote:
Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
Dudley Henriques wrote in
:
I ate a rubber donut this morning! :-)
I had a nice one!
Bertie
Dunk'in Donuts.......my curse on earth! The car pulls into their lot and
I can't stop it :-))

--
Dudley Henriques

I think I saw the same thing once on an episode of Knight Rider!

Phil
Liked that show.......until I found the ultimate in intellectual TV
entertainment........."Dukes of Hazzard!!! " :-)))))))))))))


--
Dudley Henriques