"Vanishing American Air Superiority"

On Mar 7, 12:06*am, "Ray O'Hara" wrote:
"Paul J. Adam" wrote in messagenews


In message , Ed Rasimus
writes
On Sat, 6 Mar 2010 21:35:41 +0000, "Paul J. Adam"
wrote:
During the liveliest parts of 1972, USN Phantoms killed six NVAF MiGs
for every aircraft they lost to them, while the USAF managed a 2:1
ratio. (There are many factors in play for the difference, but it's
curious how smiting two enemy for every loss is considered
inadequate...)

The "liveliest parts of 1972 only involved late April to mid-October
and then two weeks in December. The ratios you quote were not at all
for the period in question. Yes, USN kill ratios were vastly higher
than USAF. But sorties in Pack VI, duration of exposure in the arena,
specialization of training, and (as you acknowledge) many factors were
at play.

And the US was always ahead on kills, even when fighting a politically
circumscribed conflict where the enemy was frequently allowed untouchable
bases and GCI. It's not clear that the F-4 was a disaster for US military
procurement, nor that buying "something else" (what?) would have produced
a better result.

What were U.S. bases in Japan during Korea and VN but untouchable bases?
it always amazes me how our side cries the enemy was cheating by using out
of theater bases when we were doing it to a bigger degree.

and there is curious incident where 2 USAF planes from Taiwan"accidently"
shot up an airbase in China during the Korean war.

Not only that, but virtually every conflict since. Dubai in the Gulf,
Saudi Arabia. Not to mention a lot of commercial air and shipping to
move supplies and troops were never touched. Somebody gets smart and
whacks some of that and gets the insurance premiums through the roof,
we may just lose a war someday.

Lots of stuff from Taiwan haven't been put into the history books.
Which is a damn shame. Lots of spooks and sheep dipped types. Japan
also.

On Mar 7, 3:18*pm, frank wrote:
On Mar 7, 12:06*am, "Ray O'Hara" wrote:





"Paul J. Adam" wrote in messagenews

In message , Ed Rasimus
writes
On Sat, 6 Mar 2010 21:35:41 +0000, "Paul J. Adam"
wrote:
During the liveliest parts of 1972, USN Phantoms killed six NVAF MiGs
for every aircraft they lost to them, while the USAF managed a 2:1
ratio. (There are many factors in play for the difference, but it's
curious how smiting two enemy for every loss is considered
inadequate...)

The "liveliest parts of 1972 only involved late April to mid-October
and then two weeks in December. The ratios you quote were not at all
for the period in question. Yes, USN kill ratios were vastly higher
than USAF. But sorties in Pack VI, duration of exposure in the arena,
specialization of training, and (as you acknowledge) many factors were
at play.

And the US was always ahead on kills, even when fighting a politically
circumscribed conflict where the enemy was frequently allowed untouchable
bases and GCI. It's not clear that the F-4 was a disaster for US military
procurement, nor that buying "something else" (what?) would have produced
a better result.

What were U.S. bases in Japan during Korea and VN but untouchable bases?
it always amazes me how our side cries the enemy was cheating by using out
of theater bases when we were doing it to a bigger degree.

and there is curious incident where 2 USAF planes from Taiwan"accidently"
shot up an airbase in China during the Korean war.

Not only that, but virtually every conflict since. Dubai in the Gulf,
Saudi Arabia. Not to mention a lot of commercial air and shipping to
move supplies and troops were never touched. Somebody gets smart and
whacks some of that and gets the insurance premiums through the roof,
we may just lose a war someday.

Lots of stuff from Taiwan haven't been put into the history books.
Which is a damn shame. Lots of spooks and sheep dipped types. Japan
also.

It wasn't so much the "untouchable" thing either, the air defenses in
South Korea and Japan were good. The Russians and Chinese sort of had
to use the border as cover. There was also at least one Russian
encroachment on a US Navy carrier, which was driven off by the fighter
Combat Air Patrol. Yes, a US vs. Russia dogfight.

Taiwan, good question, though China and Taiwan skirmished a lot. I
agree about those history books. Maybe stuff was tried in that regard
that we haven't heard about yet for various reasons.

I agree about the air stuff today. A few years back I remember a DHL
jet in Afghanistan making a dicey landing after someone hit it with a
shoulder-launched missile.