F-102... German Origin

(ANDREW ROBERT BREEN) wrote in message ...
In article ,
Bill and Susan Maddux wrote:
It is called the spoils of war. Our race to Space with the USSR was also
from rocket scientist from Germany. Many of our early jet aircraft designs
came from Germany. Yes the US and England had working prototypes and even

More than prototypes. Both the UK and the US had jet fighters in service:
RAF had the Gloster Meteor F1 in 1944 and the Meteor F3 early in 1945,
US had the Lockheed F80 before the end of war in Europe. These are
only the aircraft which actually saw theatre service (and of these the
F3 Meteor and F80 were better all-round than any of the German designs
to see service - mainly because their engines were vastly superior).

The engines were superior only becuase they were able to use nimonic
alloys that were essentially 80 nickel and 20 chromium for tubines,
turbine nozzles and combustion chambers and exhausts. Becuase of
sever supply problems the Germans had to use alloys that were about
14% Chromium, 14% nickel balance steel and then even then replaced the
nickel with manganese and lowered the chromium and that was only for
the turbine and turbine nozzles. Other hot parts were plain steel.
This only worked becuase they were forced to advance way ahead with
blade cooling. The combustion chambers and exhaust cones were
ordinary carbon steel with an aluminium oxide corrosion coating.

The Germans did use axial compressors to get a low engine diameter and
this required slighly tighter control since the optimum opperating
point, cavitation point were closer and drop of in efficiency was more
rapid and thus required variable area exhaust nozzle but it meant
that their engines had less drag and could be installed under a wing.
The meteor had enormous difficulties in integrating its wing/engine
combination.

However an early meteors engines could be destroyed by poor throttle
handling just like a jumo 004B on a Me 262. The problem was that when
the engine accelerated the dilution of air/fuel was not controlled
tightly enough and temperatures could go high enough to blown a tubine
or combustion chamber. The jumo 004B suffered form this but the
BMW003 had a fuel by pass system that opperated using an aneroid
capsule across the compressor that used and could be thrown around
much more.

When they moved from axial impulse type compresors to axial reaction
types, as they were doing, they left the radial compressor engines
behined in efficiency.

By the time the Jumo 004D and BMW003E2 had entered production many of
the control problems had been solved, too late, however and only a few
protoype eingines were tested aprt from some use on He 163 Salamander.

The late model jumo 004D, He S11, BMW003 engines slated for production
by the Germans in mid 1945 had duplex injectors so that they could
handle flight to 55,000 feet where thin air makes proper vaproisation
and soing of fuel difficult on a siongle injector, they had effectve
throttle limiting to bypass excess fuel as engines spooled up to
prevent temperature over runs blkowing tubines and chanbers and they
had automtic systems that adjuted nozzle area to get get the
appropriate turbine temperature and backpressure.



Other designs - notably the De Havilland Vampire - were already ramping up
into production, but didn't make it to front-line squadrons before the
end of the war.


A jumo 004C equiped Me 262 could manage 578mph and a jumo 004D even
more.

It would have been quite a race.

The Germans would have jumped ahead sometime in 1946 if hostilities
had of still been going with the introduction of swept wing aircraft
like the Focke Wulf Ta 183 or Messerschmit p1011 depite their
powerplant metalurgy logistics problems.

It would not have been a big advange as I suspect as supersonic was
still borderline and as using a very thin wing gets you quite far, and
there was an vague academic awareness (but no enthusiasm and no solid
wind tunnel work) developing of swept wing technology by 1944 in the
US.


Worth remembering that the Meteor flew *before* any of the German jet
fighters did, too.

I doubt this as Me 262s were in the air in 1942, however the Meteors
development was very protracted because of airframe/engine integration
problems created by the huge diameter of the radial compressor
engines. As the radial engines became more powerfull they found their
niche in single engine aircraft like the P80/F80 and vampire where
their ungainly diameter was not a problem and their abillity to cope
with turbulent flows was an advantage.

"Eunometic" wrote in message
om...
(ANDREW ROBERT BREEN) wrote in message
...
In article ,
Bill and Susan Maddux wrote:
It is called the spoils of war. Our race to Space with the USSR was
also
from rocket scientist from Germany. Many of our early jet aircraft
designs
came from Germany. Yes the US and England had working prototypes and
even

big snip

Worth remembering that the Meteor flew *before* any of the German jet
fighters did, too.

I doubt this as Me 262s were in the air in 1942, however the Meteors

It seems you are wise to be sceptical

http://www.vectorsite.net/avmeteor.html

The first Meteor to actually fly took to the air on 5 March 1943, with
Michael Daunt
at the controls. It was the fifth in the prototype manufacturing sequence
and was fitted
with de Havilland Halford H.1 turbojets, the ancestor of the Goblin.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Messerschmitt_Me_262

It was the third airframe that was to become a true jet plane when it took
to the air on July 18, 1942 in Leipheim

John