Future military fighters and guns - yes or no ?

On the contrary...I don't believe "modern fighters" need a gun..is that
putting it better...however, the A-10 is classified as an "attack" a/c...and
before retrofits, it's primary weapon was the gun...could use it remarkable
well...and with more variety of PGU 30mm ammunitions than that available to
F-16's or F-15s...bottom line, the A-10 was design to use its gun on a daily
basis...the F boys weren't.

--
Pup
USAF, Retired
Go #88 UPS Racing, Detroit Red Wings,
Ohio State Buckeyes
__________________

"Kevin Brooks" wrote in message
...

"Puppinator" wrote in message
...

"Kevin Brooks" wrote in message
...

"Puppinator" wrote in message
...

Ok, let me explain a little deeper...the A-10 is the only on
currently
full
up operational that needs a gun....as it is it's primary weapon.

It is? Not from what I have heard about A-10 operations. The Maverick,
along
with various bombs (guided and dumb) seem to be its primary armament,
and
the gun is secondary.

I only know this from working 6 years on the A-10 and it's initial
primary
mission: CAS....but since the A-10 has been multi-roled, those lines
have
blurred. Initially, it was the gun for CAS/Tank Killer roles.

I am getting the distinct impression you are not going to back off from
the
various incorrect assertions you have made in this thread (to wit: only
the
A-10 needs a gun and it's primary weapon is the gun, can't do CAS from
10K,
failure to recognize that even the F-16 has indeed engaged in strafe
operations during both ODS and OEF, etc.). C'est la vie.

Brooks


--
Pup
USAF, Retired
Go #88 UPS Racing, Detroit Red Wings,
Ohio State Buckeyes
__________________

Just out of curiousity...what EXPERIENCE do you have working/flying the
A-10? Or do you just quote from Janes and/or CNN.



--
Pup
USAF, Retired
Go #88 UPS Racing, Detroit Red Wings,
Ohio State Buckeyes
__________________

"Puppinator" wrote in message
...
On the contrary...I don't believe "modern fighters" need a gun..is that
putting it better...however, the A-10 is classified as an "attack"
a/c...and
before retrofits, it's primary weapon was the gun...could use it
remarkable
well...and with more variety of PGU 30mm ammunitions than that available
to
F-16's or F-15s...bottom line, the A-10 was design to use its gun on a
daily
basis...the F boys weren't.

--
Pup
USAF, Retired
Go #88 UPS Racing, Detroit Red Wings,
Ohio State Buckeyes
__________________

"Kevin Brooks" wrote in message
...

"Puppinator" wrote in message
...

"Kevin Brooks" wrote in message
...

"Puppinator" wrote in message
...

Ok, let me explain a little deeper...the A-10 is the only on
currently
full
up operational that needs a gun....as it is it's primary weapon.

It is? Not from what I have heard about A-10 operations. The
Maverick,
along
with various bombs (guided and dumb) seem to be its primary
armament,
and
the gun is secondary.

I only know this from working 6 years on the A-10 and it's initial
primary
mission: CAS....but since the A-10 has been multi-roled, those lines
have
blurred. Initially, it was the gun for CAS/Tank Killer roles.

I am getting the distinct impression you are not going to back off from
the
various incorrect assertions you have made in this thread (to wit: only
the
A-10 needs a gun and it's primary weapon is the gun, can't do CAS from
10K,
failure to recognize that even the F-16 has indeed engaged in strafe
operations during both ODS and OEF, etc.). C'est la vie.

Brooks


--
Pup
USAF, Retired
Go #88 UPS Racing, Detroit Red Wings,
Ohio State Buckeyes
__________________

Subject: Future military fighters and guns - yes or no ?
From: "Puppinator"
Date: 3/2/04 7:04 AM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id:



Just out of curiousity...what EXPERIENCE do you have working/flying the
A-10? Or do you just quote from Janes and/or CNN.

Pup
USAF, Retired

Brooks never flew anything. He never fired a shot in anger or saw an enemy.
Take that into consideration.


Arthur Kramer
344th BG 494th BS
England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer

"ArtKramr" wrote in message
...
Subject: Future military fighters and guns - yes or no ?
From: "Puppinator"
Date: 3/2/04 7:04 AM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id:



Just out of curiousity...what EXPERIENCE do you have working/flying the
A-10? Or do you just quote from Janes and/or CNN.

Pup
USAF, Retired

Brooks never flew anything. He never fired a shot in anger or saw an
enemy.
Take that into consideration.

But I did not have to be threatened with the draft in order to volunteer for
the service I have provided, unlike you. Nor did I volunteer during a period
where had I failed to I would have been labled a shirker, as was the case
when you served; quite the opposite, I actually was sworn in during a time
when being in the military was not quite as well thought of as it is now.
Nor am I compelled to make up things in a vain effort to make myself feel
important, like you habitually do. Finally, I address the queries raised to
me, unlike you. So just what the heck are you so proud of, Art?

Brooks



Arthur Kramer

Subject: Future military fighters and guns - yes or no ?
From: "Kevin Brooks"
Date: 3/2/04 11:14 AM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id:


"ArtKramr" wrote in message
...
Subject: Future military fighters and guns - yes or no ?
From: "Puppinator"
Date: 3/2/04 7:04 AM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id:



Just out of curiousity...what EXPERIENCE do you have working/flying the
A-10? Or do you just quote from Janes and/or CNN.

Pup
USAF, Retired

Brooks never flew anything. He never fired a shot in anger or saw an
enemy.
Take that into consideration.

But I did not have to be threatened with the draft in order to volunteer for
the service I have provided, unlike you. Nor did I volunteer during a period
where had I failed to I would have been labled a shirker, as was the case
when you served; quite the opposite, I actually was sworn in during a time
when being in the military was not quite as well thought of as it is now.
Nor am I compelled to make up things in a vain effort to make myself feel
important, like you habitually do. Finally, I address the queries raised to
me, unlike you. So just what the heck are you so proud of, Art?

Brooks




All the fun and games I was having at 10,000 feet over Germany. And also
attending funerals of friends many of whom still lie in foreign soil Never saw
you there coward. How was the flak behind a desk in Ohio? You could have
volunteered for a combat unit. How come you never did coward? You are the
bottom of he barrel of the military.



Arthur Kramer
344th BG 494th BS
England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer

"ArtKramr" wrote in message
...
Subject: Future military fighters and guns - yes or no ?
From: "Kevin Brooks"
Date: 3/2/04 11:14 AM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id:


"ArtKramr" wrote in message
...
Subject: Future military fighters and guns - yes or no ?
From: "Puppinator"
Date: 3/2/04 7:04 AM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id:



Just out of curiousity...what EXPERIENCE do you have working/flying
the
A-10? Or do you just quote from Janes and/or CNN.

Pup
USAF, Retired

Brooks never flew anything. He never fired a shot in anger or saw an
enemy.
Take that into consideration.

But I did not have to be threatened with the draft in order to volunteer
for
the service I have provided, unlike you. Nor did I volunteer during a
period
where had I failed to I would have been labled a shirker, as was the case
when you served; quite the opposite, I actually was sworn in during a
time
when being in the military was not quite as well thought of as it is now.
Nor am I compelled to make up things in a vain effort to make myself feel
important, like you habitually do. Finally, I address the queries raised
to
me, unlike you. So just what the heck are you so proud of, Art?

Brooks




All the fun and games I was having at 10,000 feet over Germany.

So you say. Based upon the lack of persoanl integrity you have demonstrated
thus far, it is kind of hard to know how much of your "exploits" are real
and how much is your imagination in overdrive. You see, that is the problem
when you start lying--after you get caught in them, nobody knows which
further statements of yours are fact and which are fiction.

And also
attending funerals of friends many of whom still lie in foreign soil

One wonders why you continue to sneer at my one and only example of having
served on duty in Ohio (which for some reason you are fascinated with, can't
figure out why), where we performed a similar military funeral.

Never saw
you there coward.

Oh, gee, maybe that was because I was not born until a bit over fifteen
years AFTER the war was over? Your rants are growing more pathetic...

How was the flak behind a desk in Ohio?

Again (and I realize that your mind may not be what it once was), I never
served behind a desk in Ohio, OK? Simple concept--even you should be able to
grasp it with enough effort. Again, what is this fixation you have with
Ohio? Did some airman from Ohio knock you on your keister when you gave him
some of your oh-so-mean 19 year old butter-bar lip? Is that why you are
always drawn back to trying to connect someone who has the temerity to
disagree with you, or to call you on your repeated false statements, with
the Buckeye State?

You could have
volunteered for a combat unit.

I did not have to. My first active duty assignment was to a combat unit (the
19th Engineer battalion (Combat) (Corps) (Wheeled); Company B to be
exact--ran into my old CO years later when he evaluated our unit during a
training exercise). Finished that one up and moved to a construction unit.
Then to a bridge construction unit. Etc. etc. Weren't you the guy who
claimed folks in the military had to do what and go where they are told?

How come you never did coward?

Being as I did serve in a couple of combat units, that is an irrational
statement.

You are the
bottom of he barrel of the military.

You are entitled to your opinion. But that does not change the fact that you
remain a proven liar.

Brooks



Arthur Kramer

Subject: Future military fighters and guns - yes or no ?
From: "Kevin Brooks"
Date: 3/2/04 12:02 PM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id:


"ArtKramr" wrote in message
...
Subject: Future military fighters and guns - yes or no ?
From: "Kevin Brooks"
Date: 3/2/04 11:14 AM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id:


"ArtKramr" wrote in message
...
Subject: Future military fighters and guns - yes or no ?
From: "Puppinator"
Date: 3/2/04 7:04 AM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id:



Just out of curiousity...what EXPERIENCE do you have working/flying
the
A-10? Or do you just quote from Janes and/or CNN.

Pup
USAF, Retired

Brooks never flew anything. He never fired a shot in anger or saw an
enemy.
Take that into consideration.

But I did not have to be threatened with the draft in order to volunteer
for
the service I have provided, unlike you. Nor did I volunteer during a
period
where had I failed to I would have been labled a shirker, as was the case
when you served; quite the opposite, I actually was sworn in during a
time
when being in the military was not quite as well thought of as it is now.
Nor am I compelled to make up things in a vain effort to make myself feel
important, like you habitually do. Finally, I address the queries raised
to
me, unlike you. So just what the heck are you so proud of, Art?

Brooks




All the fun and games I was having at 10,000 feet over Germany.

So you say. Based upon the lack of persoanl integrity you have demonstrated
thus far, it is kind of hard to know how much of your "exploits" are real
and how much is your imagination in overdrive. You see, that is the problem
when you start lying--after you get caught in them, nobody knows which
further statements of yours are fact and which are fiction.

And also
attending funerals of friends many of whom still lie in foreign soil

One wonders why you continue to sneer at my one and only example of having
served on duty in Ohio (which for some reason you are fascinated with, can't
figure out why), where we performed a similar military funeral.

Never saw
you there coward.

Oh, gee, maybe that was because I was not born until a bit over fifteen
years AFTER the war was over? Your rants are growing more pathetic...

How was the flak behind a desk in Ohio?

Again (and I realize that your mind may not be what it once was), I never
served behind a desk in Ohio, OK? Simple concept--even you should be able to
grasp it with enough effort. Again, what is this fixation you have with
Ohio? Did some airman from Ohio knock you on your keister when you gave him
some of your oh-so-mean 19 year old butter-bar lip? Is that why you are
always drawn back to trying to connect someone who has the temerity to
disagree with you, or to call you on your repeated false statements, with
the Buckeye State?

You could have
volunteered for a combat unit.

I did not have to. My first active duty assignment was to a combat unit (the
19th Engineer battalion (Combat) (Corps) (Wheeled); Company B to be
exact--ran into my old CO years later when he evaluated our unit during a
training exercise). Finished that one up and moved to a construction unit.
Then to a bridge construction unit. Etc. etc. Weren't you the guy who
claimed folks in the military had to do what and go where they are told?

How come you never did coward?

Being as I did serve in a couple of combat units, that is an irrational
statement.

You are the
bottom of he barrel of the military.

You are entitled to your opinion. But that does not change the fact that you
remain a proven liar.

Brooks



Arthur Kramer


So you claim but you have proven nothing. And those of us who went into harms
way for our country have nothing to answer for ever. But you who never
volunteered for any combat duty have everything to answer for. Coward.


Arthur Kramer
344th BG 494th BS
England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer

"Puppinator" wrote in message
...
Just out of curiousity...what EXPERIENCE do you have working/flying the
A-10? Or do you just quote from Janes and/or CNN.

Oh, goodie. Another Art-in-the-making. Never flew an A-10, obviously. Do
happen to know that your "the gun is their main armament" is about twenty
years out of date, if not more (ISTR Mavericks were included in their
warloads from the beginning). The gun was not their primary method of attack
during ODS, nor was it during OIF. If you think it is now, or was during
those conflicts, provide some sort of evidence that supports that theory.

Brooks



--
Pup
USAF, Retired
Go #88 UPS Racing, Detroit Red Wings,
Ohio State Buckeyes
__________________

"Puppinator" wrote in message
...
On the contrary...I don't believe "modern fighters" need a gun..is that
putting it better...however, the A-10 is classified as an "attack"
a/c...and
before retrofits, it's primary weapon was the gun...could use it
remarkable
well...and with more variety of PGU 30mm ammunitions than that available
to
F-16's or F-15s...bottom line, the A-10 was design to use its gun on a
daily
basis...the F boys weren't.

--
Pup
USAF, Retired
Go #88 UPS Racing, Detroit Red Wings,
Ohio State Buckeyes
__________________

"Kevin Brooks" wrote in message
...

"Puppinator" wrote in message
...

"Kevin Brooks" wrote in message
...

"Puppinator" wrote in message
...

Ok, let me explain a little deeper...the A-10 is the only on
currently
full
up operational that needs a gun....as it is it's primary weapon.

It is? Not from what I have heard about A-10 operations. The
Maverick,
along
with various bombs (guided and dumb) seem to be its primary
armament,
and
the gun is secondary.

I only know this from working 6 years on the A-10 and it's initial
primary
mission: CAS....but since the A-10 has been multi-roled, those lines
have
blurred. Initially, it was the gun for CAS/Tank Killer roles.

I am getting the distinct impression you are not going to back off
from
the
various incorrect assertions you have made in this thread (to wit:
only
the
A-10 needs a gun and it's primary weapon is the gun, can't do CAS from
10K,
failure to recognize that even the F-16 has indeed engaged in strafe
operations during both ODS and OEF, etc.). C'est la vie.

Brooks


--
Pup
USAF, Retired
Go #88 UPS Racing, Detroit Red Wings,
Ohio State Buckeyes
__________________

Subject: Future military fighters and guns - yes or no ?
From: "Kevin Brooks"
Date: 3/2/04 11:09 AM Pacific

Never flew an A-10, obviously.

You never flew anything. That's the bottom line right? Never fought anyone and
never experienced combat right? Not much left for you is there?


Arthur Kramer
344th BG 494th BS
England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer

"ArtKramr" wrote in message
...
Subject: Future military fighters and guns - yes or no ?
From: "Kevin Brooks"
Date: 3/2/04 11:09 AM Pacific

Never flew an A-10, obviously.

You never flew anything. That's the bottom line right? Never fought anyone
and
never experienced combat right? Not much left for you is there?

Nope. Never flew other than as a passenger. And that would be important
because...? Not a bit ashamed of my service, and unlike you I have never had
to resort to making things up in order to bolster my own self-image. That
you have to do that is kind of sad, really--one would think you did enough
to be proud of your service without having to go to such extremes. But,
since we can't really place any trust in your claims, maybe you have reason
for fabricating material that you feel better reflects on you.

Brooks



Arthur Kramer