British v. German jet engines (Pete Stickeny)

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Pete Stickney wrote in another thread:


These allied engines were so succesfull and powerfull that non of
them
could be installed on an aircraft. irony off


What propelled the Meteor then ?

Rubber bands ?

The Welland of the Meteor I could, admitedly, outperform a rubber band

The Meteor III improved the situation but was still no faster than a
top line piston fighter at altitude. (TA 152H, P51H, Spitefull, Do
335, P47M)


Meteor III was considered superior to the Tempest V in all depts
except for roll rate, the Meteor III's with long nacelles were faster
than the Me-262 and the Meteor IV's were capable of 580 mph

Keith


The Meteor was a well designed aircaft but it did require a lot more
thrust and development to actualy perform as a 'fast Jet' and clearly
the concept lived on in the Canberra bomber with its high speed and
high altitude but it was intrinsically a transonic aircraft.

Its also inplausible to assume that Messerschmitt would have been
siting on its hands with Me 262A1a fitted with 880kg thrust Jumo 004B1
while the British developed Meteor I, Meteor III, Meteor III long
nacelle etc.

The Jumo 004C increased thrust to 1000kg pushing the Me 262 top speed
to 578mph (its record level flight speed), while the Jumo 004D pushed
the thrust to 1050kg.

At that point the much lighter and much much smaller frontal area
BMW003D at 1100kg thrust might have been ready with its much better
fuel consumption and lower drag and latter still the Me 262 with
Heinkel Hirth HeS 011 with 1300 (hopefully raising to 1700kg)
turbojets installed in the armpit position. (the BMW003D was needed
for long range reconaisence versions of the Arado 234)

Trouble is by then theUSAAF would have been delivering a
special physics package to Berlin using a B-29 escorted by P-80's

Keith

That is certainly outside the scope of the discusion whcih relates to
the comparative merrits of Allied and German jet engines and aircraft.

Delivering a nuclear bomb to Berlin, in the circumstances that the war
had of been delayed due to for instance a delay in D-Day produced by
some kind of advance in jet engines (ie getting them into service 1
year earlier) or submarine warfare (getting the Type XXI subamrine in
service 1 year earlier) would have been far more difficult than
delivering one to japan.

The Germans always managed approximetly 1%-3% attrition against allied
aircraft by FLAK alone and sometimes against the RAAF much higher
(cities defended by 128mm cannon). On top of that German aircaft had
the performance to intercept B29s wheras the Japanese had not. The
477mph 50,000ft service ceiling TA 152H1 could get at a B29 without
difficulty (and it could out turn any allied aircraft to boot) as
could both the 458mph Fw 190 D12 or Me 460mph 109K4 or the Do 335 with
similar speed and long range standoff 30mm cannon. Then of course
there was the Me 163 rocket fighter which at 580mph while in a
20,000ft/minute climb could slash through even an early P80 escort and
of course the Me 262 possibly armed not only with R4M missiles but
standoff missiles such as the R100 or X4 guided missile. By that time
the Germans would have caught up in microwave techniques (they had the
FuG 244N3 microwave radar in production) as well and achieved a
substantial increase in FLAK accuracy.

So there was a substantial chance that an attempt to deliver a nuclear
bomb to Germany by say the end of 1945 or early 1946 would have been
shot down and that the bomb would fall into German hands.

It would have been a substantially riskier endeavour.

The Mig 15s swept the B29s from the sky over Korea.

The Jet was the end of the piston bomber.

There were only a small number of technical decisions that could have
gone either way that ensured a German defeat in 1945.