Verifying flap retraction

"C J Campbell" wrote in message
...
Most of the problems that I have had on Cessna 172s have been with
flaps. I
agree that pilots should verify flaps up on touch and goes.

Cessna used to have manual flaps. Why did they ever go to this flakey
electrical system in the first place?

The old "Johnson bar" could be fun. You had to depress the button in
front by lifting the pressure gently off the bar. Every now and then if
you weren't careful, the damn thing could slip out of your fingers and
slam down, retracting the flaps in one hell of a hurry.
You could always tell the CFI's who had had this happen to them when a
student let the bar go on a low altitude go around. They would be the
ones with the snow white hair!!! :-)
Dudley Henriques
International Fighter Pilots Fellowship
Commercial Pilot/ CFI Retired

For personal email, please
replace the at with what goes there and
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On Tue, 17 Aug 2004 15:26:45 GMT, "Dudley Henriques"
wrote:


"C J Campbell" wrote in message
...
Most of the problems that I have had on Cessna 172s have been with
flaps. I
agree that pilots should verify flaps up on touch and goes.

Cessna used to have manual flaps. Why did they ever go to this flakey
electrical system in the first place?

The old "Johnson bar" could be fun. You had to depress the button in
front by lifting the pressure gently off the bar. Every now and then if
you weren't careful, the damn thing could slip out of your fingers and
slam down, retracting the flaps in one hell of a hurry.

The old Hershey Bar winged Cherokee 180s also used the Johnson bar.
It was the only plane where I could raise the flaps and actually
shorten the landing roll. The electric ones are just too slow.

You could always tell the CFI's who had had this happen to them when a
student let the bar go on a low altitude go around. They would be the
ones with the snow white hair!!! :-)

In nearly 375 hours I never dropped the bar once.
Man, when doing a short filed landing you put the bar full forward as
soon as the mains were down. It felt like the gear got a foot shorter
when that bar went forward. :-))

Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
G-III almost done except for the last 90%
www.rogerhalstead.com

Dudley Henriques
International Fighter Pilots Fellowship
Commercial Pilot/ CFI Retired

For personal email, please
replace the at with what goes there and
take out the Z's please!
dhenriquesZatZearthZlinkZdotZnet

On Wed, 18 Aug 2004 01:00:01 GMT, Roger Halstead
wrote:

The old Hershey Bar winged Cherokee 180s also used the Johnson bar.
It was the only plane where I could raise the flaps and actually
shorten the landing roll. The electric ones are just too slow.

I took Damien Del -- well, I took the Andover NJ "bush flying" course
last year. He taught this technique in the Aviat Husky. (Also flying
in ground effect over the corn stubble short of the threshold, then
dumping the flaps just as you reach the grass. Voila! 250-foot
landing!)

I had a bleeding knuckle after a couple hours of this.

all the best -- Dan Ford
email: (put Cubdriver in subject line)

The Warbird's Forum www.warbirdforum.com
Expedition sailboat charters www.expeditionsail.com

On Wed, 18 Aug 2004 08:07:16 -0400, Cub Driver
wrote:

On Wed, 18 Aug 2004 01:00:01 GMT, Roger Halstead
wrote:

The old Hershey Bar winged Cherokee 180s also used the Johnson bar.
It was the only plane where I could raise the flaps and actually
shorten the landing roll. The electric ones are just too slow.

I took Damien Del -- well, I took the Andover NJ "bush flying" course
last year. He taught this technique in the Aviat Husky. (Also flying
in ground effect over the corn stubble short of the threshold, then
dumping the flaps just as you reach the grass. Voila! 250-foot
landing!)

Couple years ago I took part in a spot landing contest. It was pretty
much a no rules type rather than you and only reduce throttle and add
flaps type of thing.

I thought I was doing pretty good touching down on the mains with
something like 21 or 22 inches to go. The a couple pilots flying a 172
both made 11 inches. Then the FBO, Terry Blodgett got out his old
V-35. He set the mains on the tape and cut it in two.

At any rate, where I was headed was Cherokees, Johnson bars, and short
fields. There was a Cherokee that came in with all seats full. I
think it was a Cherokee 6, but it's been a while. At any rate (think I
already said that), he was dragging it in and then dumped the flaps.
Thing is, he was a tad higher than he though. It sounded like someone
dropped a trash can on the runway. A big trash can:-)) All that and
he didn't come close to the 4 closest landings.

Those Cherokees are rugged! I've seen proofsnicker

I had a bleeding knuckle after a couple hours of this.

Just one?

Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com

all the best -- Dan Ford
email: (put Cubdriver in subject line)

The Warbird's Forum www.warbirdforum.com
Expedition sailboat charters www.expeditionsail.com

On Tue, 17 Aug 2004 07:56:53 -0700, "C J Campbell"
wrote:

Most of the problems that I have had on Cessna 172s have been with flaps. I
agree that pilots should verify flaps up on touch and goes.

Cessna used to have manual flaps. Why did they ever go to this flakey
electrical system in the first place?

Recently, I've been flying a 1956 C172 and I like the manual flaps. I
don't miss the convenience of electric flaps at all. Plus, if the
feeble old electic system craps out I still have flap. I know you can
land without them, but my home base is a relatively short runway with
trees on each end.
Rich Russell

Hey, that was the primary reason why I bought a 1965 airplane - manual
flaps. Love 'em...

In article , C J Campbell
wrote:

Most of the problems that I have had on Cessna 172s have been with flaps. I
agree that pilots should verify flaps up on touch and goes.

Cessna used to have manual flaps. Why did they ever go to this flakey
electrical system in the first place?



--
David Herman
N6170T 1965 Cessna 150E
Boeing Field (BFI), Seattle, WA
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Visit the Pacific Northwest Flying Forum -
http://www.smartgroups.com/groups/pnwflying

In article ,
"C J Campbell" wrote:

Most of the problems that I have had on Cessna 172s have been with flaps. I
agree that pilots should verify flaps up on touch and goes.

Cessna used to have manual flaps. Why did they ever go to this flakey
electrical system in the first place?

I did my initial training in Cessnas, and "verify flaps retracting" was
drummed into me as part of the touch-and-go procedure.

Now I fly mostly Pipers. I really like the manual flaps instead of
Cessna's electric ones, and curse the electric trim Piper uses instead
of Cessna's manual trim system.

Simple stuff just works better.

Roy Smith wrote:

Now I fly mostly Pipers. I really like the manual flaps instead of
Cessna's electric ones, and curse the electric trim Piper uses instead
of Cessna's manual trim system.

Maule gives you manual systems for both!

George Patterson
If you want to know God's opinion of money, just look at the people
he gives it to.

"Roy Smith" wrote in message
...
Now I fly mostly Pipers. I really like the manual flaps instead of
Cessna's electric ones, and curse the electric trim Piper uses instead
of Cessna's manual trim system.

Is there not a manual trim wheel then?

Paul

In article ,
"Paul Sengupta" wrote:

"Roy Smith" wrote in message
...
Now I fly mostly Pipers. I really like the manual flaps instead of
Cessna's electric ones, and curse the electric trim Piper uses instead
of Cessna's manual trim system.

Is there not a manual trim wheel then?

Paul

There is, but it's not in a very convenient place (stuffed between the
front seats). The Piper electric trim is very convenient when it works,
the problem is that it so often doesn't work :-(